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Topic: Need advice on a Strong Endless loop

Sean M. Grimes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: Lunenburg, MA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 07-15-2000 11:21 PM

Allright guys and girls I need some advice. After transfering in to my current theater I had the luck to find that we have a rear screen projectior with a strong ap endless loop platter. Of course there was no manual so I downloaded one off the site followed the directions and unfortunately the longest I can get the star shape to last is about two days. I was just wondering if anyone had any pointers with the endless loop projectors or should I just throw the towel and run it from platter to platter? and again thanks for everyone who makes this site the best damn film site on the net!!!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-15-2000 11:35 PM

I'm sure our friends at Tivoli Enterprises will be by shortly to give advice. They run endless loops in most of their theaters and seem to have mastered the art.

I've never ran one, but it would indeed be interesting to play with one. Perhaps we could get one in for 90 days to review?

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Scott D. Neff
Theatre Dork

Posts: 919
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 07-16-2000 02:11 AM

People ACTUALLY use Endless Loop Platter for running regular films? I always assumed that they were only for special venues.

I assumed that ELP's were a fad of the 70's when everybody shouted "Hallelujah... no more projectionist!" I didn't think that any NEW theatres would be installing them.

I'd be interested to see one in operation and hear the pros and cons of such a gizmo.

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Scott D. Neff
----------------
www.cinema-west.com

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Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000

posted 07-16-2000 06:42 AM

Sean; Are you in one of the Regal Theatres? Loops were being used for previews and trailers shown for the lobby, as I remember. It just runs and runs, right?
What's the length of the film loop itself? Ideally, it should be 70 minutes or so, but I imagine this one is shorter. What are the model and serial numbers?
I assume the film is probably wrapping in some way around the center feed as well as re-shaping itself. The reshaping is not a problem as much as the wrapping that occurs. Is it "forward" or "back wrapping", as if it were a platter that's feeding too fast or slow for the film demand? Has this been a general problem or a fairly recent development?

Pat

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-16-2000 02:13 PM

It's funny that Tivoli should come up here as I tried out the first Potts loop for them way way back in the 80's. It was a disaster to say the least, primarily cause they were wanting to use it on sub run stuff. If you get a print with any oil on it you can forget it. The film sticks to itself(it normally has to slide,or rub on itself for the loop to work anyway)and big wrap disasters can result. Lets face it. Most manufacturers, including Christie(who's loop worked the best) have discontinued these dogs for many very valid reasons. I'd never use a device that allows film to rub on itself in any way shape or form. Filmguard may help out a bit, but the film rubbing on itself is the best reason not to use it. There are many other reasons not to use it. The first that comes to mind is laziness and the fact that the projector will most likely not get cleaned out at regular intervals. My advice would be, that choosing a loop in any circumstance is poor engineering!
Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-16-2000 02:25 PM

We tryed the prototype potts looper at the cedarbrae theatre in toronto back when and I remember the projectionist Ed McCormack had pre printed interuptin reports made up as it crashed so often
the only looper I ever saw run right was the gantz loop tables and then only after the prints were magstriped to create a gap in the pac. (loop cabinets not included)

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 07-16-2000 10:23 PM

I know of a handful of these types of installs, where they're only running trailers on an endless loop. The main reason it doesn't work is the theatres don't put enough film on them.

Cycle several duplicate prints of each trailer in the program if you have to, but load that baby up! Put some shorts or cartoons on with it... anything to add time.

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Better Projection Pays!

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Sean M. Grimes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: Lunenburg, MA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 07-17-2000 01:06 AM

The endless loop runs a trailer reel into the lobby. The loop is normally fourty to fifty minutes long. I guess that is just not long enough. It does wrap usually four to five times over before it loses it's "Star" shape.
My theater was one of the cookie cutter Regals until Hoyts bought it. Here in central New York if you want to see a first run you are under our spell.

So basically I should run something at least an hour or so long? The best thing about the endless loop is the fact it is ran to a sixtys super-simplex. It runs stronger than most of my Milleniums.

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Tom Kroening
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 214
From: Janesville, WI USA
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 07-17-2000 02:32 AM

The theatre i work at now has one of those damn rear screens too. The endless loop part of the platter is broken though. If you turn it on the rewind arm will bang against teh star tracks underneeth. A better alternitave to the rear screen projecter is to have your theatre purchase a tv video projector and build a VHS trailer tape. Will save the headache of threading another projecter and is very low maintanance!

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Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000

posted 07-17-2000 08:28 AM

Sean;
The Loop "likes" an hour of film more than only 40 minutes or so. The biggest problem might be scraping together enough trailers to make that much of a show.
The most critical part of the loop is that each circle of film on the deck must be the same length. If, during make up the last loop is cinched too tight or is too loose, that introduces a variable in the loop's operation. All of a sudden there's one wrap of film that's much shorter or longer than the other wraps, and that difference shows up by wrapping the difference around the center feed one way or another. When you "close the loop" try to be sure the loop sizes are correct when you make that final splice. Too much slack or too tight a wrap will cause such problems, especially on shorter film amounts like these.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 07-17-2000 10:09 AM

Continuous loop platters are also very sensitive to changes in temperature and humidity of the projection room. Try to maintain a constant temperature, and keep the humidity between 50 and 60 percent RH.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-17-2000 09:23 PM

Basically, the final word is this. Anyone that uses one of these dogs in a theater should seriously consider switching to video projection as they are not obviously concerned with any sort of quality presentation anyway. Only the buck speaks here for the mere convenience of it.
Mark

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Sean M. Grimes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: Lunenburg, MA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 07-18-2000 02:11 AM

Mark,

I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately the company wont go for it - allready tried. I am going to try the longer loop and if that doesnt help I unfortunately need to invest more time into teaching my projectionists how to change out a contactor - My booth stays at a nice constant 57 degrees or so reaitive humidity. But hey why would be in the world of film if we did not even try to strive for perfection? I would've managed a Burger King otherwise....

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Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000

posted 07-26-2000 03:18 AM

Sean -- wondering if there was anything new on your loop saga. I'm in Korea looking at one here and it made me think of your situation. Things better?

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Sean M. Grimes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: Lunenburg, MA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 07-28-2000 03:05 AM

Pat,

It is actually working great. The only problem is changing out the trailers. It just does suck having to break everything down to break the entire thing to get one out. Currently there is an 1hr 15min on it and I made sure that it wasnt "cinched" at the end. The most surprising thing is (sorry, Brad) filmgaurd actually is kind of working against the entire idea. It's not that the filmgaurd is applied in too much of a quanity. Just it seems that any type of moisture hinders the process - but maybe next time a little less.

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