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Author Topic: 4 Track Mag sound
Travis Cape
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 122
From: St. Louis, MO, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 07-07-2000 12:16 AM      Profile for Travis Cape   Email Travis Cape   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We are in the process of installing a CP500 in our theatre with the 701 penthouse. Being the curious little projectionist that I am, I want to install 4 track on Projector 2. Yes, I know prints are tough, but out there. I bought the 685 card, got a CP200 mag preamp, and a power supply. I was wondering which penthouse I should use. If the heads are good, which is better? I have access to Simplex and RCA. I have XL's with RCA 9050's so either should be correct. I just want to hear it talk to say that I did.

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 07-07-2000 12:51 AM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

sounds like me. I messed with a RCA9010 once
never got it to talk though

Josh

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 07-07-2000 10:04 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They both are probably OK, I would choose whichever mounts the easiest. Verify that the sprockets on the rest of the projector are the "Fox" type. In the early 1980's Teccon made mag heads that were a big improvement over earlier heads; you might want to look around for one of those. Since no one really uses 4-track anymore, you might find one cheap.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-08-2000 11:55 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mounting can also introduce a sync problem if you don't have the correct spacer plate adapter

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Travis Cape
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 122
From: St. Louis, MO, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 07-08-2000 11:13 PM      Profile for Travis Cape   Email Travis Cape   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think I should go with the Simplex penthouses. Do they just need to mount directly to the head with the four screws? By the way, I do have the "Fox" sprockets. This is just another one of my ways to make a boring single screen job interesting for me. I have all of the test film for 4-track, now to find some prints.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-09-2000 01:47 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>I have all of the test film for 4-track, now to find some prints.<<

...which may prove difficult. We've got (although I'm not sure it still exists) a near mint 35mm print of The Blues Brothers in four track available to us here but there's not a lot of money left in that one anymore.

You may get some from collectors, but...

I ran a mag/opt print of Empire Strikes Back in 1983. The reel lengths were still the same as an optical print, but anyone remembering that title will recall it was 119 minutes long on six reels (nothing today, but in those days, those made for some pretty big reels of film). Now add to those already full reels a mag track and each 2000 went over the rim by about 1/2 an inch!

Fun, fun, fun...

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-10-2000 06:35 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unless stored properly, magnetic tracks on triacetate prints made them more prone to "vinegar syndrome". Iron (rusted cans or reels, magnetic stripe) serves as a catalyst for the hydrolysis reaction. The binders used for magnetic tracks were also prone to hydrolysis.

If you have striped prints that are still in good condition, you should continue to store them in cool and dry conditions. Unsealed containers allow venting of the acid by-products, so the acid won't build up. If sealed containers are used, Molecular Sieves will adsorb both moisture and acid, retarding "vinegar syndrome". See SMPTE Recommended Practice RP131 "Storage of Motion Picture Films" or Kodak's publication H-23 "The Book of Film Care":
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/technical/care.shtml

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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David Kilderry
Master Film Handler

Posts: 355
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 07-11-2000 04:04 AM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage   Email David Kilderry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
AAAAHHHHHH good old 4-track. Last ones seen down this way were "Blues Brothers", "Xanadu" and a re-run of "Lawrance Of Arabia".

Oh, and the fantastic scope 4-track ad for Marlborough. I remember the other shift one day switching to mag for this ad only to have no sound - they forgot to thread the mag penthouse!

By early 1980's here all magnetic was 70mm. If you really want to smell what true vinegar syndrome smells and looks like, you check out my 70mm spools of "Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" it is faded, shrunken and stinks to high you know where!

David

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David Johnson
Film Handler

Posts: 54
From: Melbourne Vict Australia
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 07-11-2000 07:09 AM      Profile for David Johnson   Email David Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David, Did you know last week Northland ran a 4 track print of "West Side Story" so there are still a few around.
David

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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 07-11-2000 04:04 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the last couple of dozen years, the only 4-track prints that I have run are:
The Song Remains The Same - Led Zepplin
The Buddy Holly Story
The Slipper and the Rose
Earthquake (4th track used to trigger the Sensurround equipment)
The Rose

Many 35MM mag prints had a 12 kHz tone to switch in the surround track (better described as an "effects" track) whenever surround effects were desired. Unlike Dolby stereo recordings, this track was only used to enhance dramatic screen action. (the bells of the abbey in Sound of Music, a roll of thunder in King of Kings, ect.). If your M.P.U. does not have a 12 kHz filter, you may hear (actually more feel, than hear) an annoying high-frequency whistle from the surrounds. You may end up spending a lot of time with high-Q (notch) filters trying to get around this problem. It all depends on the print.

Good luck!


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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-14-2000 04:32 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David,

I remember running Marlboro 'Early Morn' at the Westline... (sob) It sure looked great on that screen. Ours wasn't 4 track though. I didn't even know a four track of this existed until a friend of mine dragged it out at his home cinema once.

there's a four track of Xanadu around? Hmmmmmmm...


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