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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Basement LED Kelmar readers (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Basement LED Kelmar readers
Cory Johnson
Film Handler

Posts: 46
From: La Crosse, WI USA
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 07-05-2000 09:26 AM      Profile for Cory Johnson   Email Cory Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We just got some new projectors with the basement LED readers (reads both SR and Digital). My question is, we also have a Dolby Digital reader (DA20?) that sits on top of one of the projectors. That reader works well and runs between 0-5 usually on prints. Well on our new basement readers, we are lucky if we get readings under 5. On one particular projector, which has a new print of perfect storm in it, it runs at a constant 7. At every reel change splice, it drops to SR for a moment also. The other readers seem to sit at a constant 5 or lower except this one reader. We had 60 seconds in there and Shanghai Noon in there and both of them would drop out of digital during the show to SR for periods of time because the reader was showing 8-F on the meter. Are basement readers just not as good as the Dolby readers? Can they be adjusted? I think that tripping out of digital on a 3 weeks old print is not acceptable. If they can be adjusted, I want to make sure before I have our tech come in and redo the setup (The theatre is 3 weeks old with all new equipment). Thanks.

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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 07-05-2000 09:51 AM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Your basement reader must be a Kelmar.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-05-2000 11:18 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What make of projectors and what make of readers. Are the used projectors
Often it can be bad bearings in the soundhead that cause excessive jitter that create problems in the basement readers

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Cory Johnson
Film Handler

Posts: 46
From: La Crosse, WI USA
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 07-05-2000 01:05 PM      Profile for Cory Johnson   Email Cory Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They are brand new X90 Strong Projector Consoles with Kelmar basement readers (dont know the model, but the came built-in with the projectors.) They are the dual Analog/Digital LED readers with two lenses - one for SR, one for SRD. Everything is brand new out of the box: CP500, X90 Projector, QCS Amps, QSC Digital booth monitor with built in cross overs. We have four new booths will identical equipment and it is just one of the new projectors that is having this issue of bad digital reads.

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Dave Cutler
Master Film Handler

Posts: 277
From: Centennial, CO
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 07-05-2000 02:11 PM      Profile for Dave Cutler   Email Dave Cutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Run a cat 69T (Dolby Tone). Make sure that the reader is calibrated correctly. May need a power boost to the LED. May also be out of alignment.


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-05-2000 02:17 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At least your basement readers work. Mine are Christie and it's a whole different ballgame.

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Ari Nordström
Master Film Handler

Posts: 283
From: Göteborg, Sweden
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-05-2000 03:08 PM      Profile for Ari Nordström   Email Ari Nordström   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My experience is that the Dolby readers (probably Cat 700 or 701 in your case, BTW; DA-20 is the digital processor) are slightly better than the combo readers. Our cat 701 usually stays between 0-3, with an occasional print at 4 or 5. So far I haven't had more than one print that went to F. It turned out that the subtitles had wrecked the SRD track.

Among the basement readers i've seen or heard about, Kinoton's reader is supposedly an absolute disaster while Cinemeccanica's newer readers are actually quite good. Kelmar, I don't know much about, I'm afraid.

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Stephen Jones
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Geelong Victoria Australia
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-05-2000 08:46 PM      Profile for Stephen Jones   Email Stephen Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I find the Kinoton is one of the best basement readers I have used and the other being the cat 700.Our error rate on the Kinoton reader's is always between 1 and 3 which I think is pretty good as some cat 700's have been on 5 or 6.I have used the Component Engerneering reader fitted to a Century sound head and that was usually on 6 or 7.As for Cinemeccanica sound heads I'm not impressed by these at all.

Stephen

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-05-2000 09:52 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone know why the Christie basement readers are so horrible? I mean, besides the fact that they aren't designed well, aren't supported by Christie, and that their projectors shake them all over making them 'seem' even worse.

If Christie supports their basement readers, then they will surely correct my comments for everyone to see. (They do read this forum)


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-06-2000 03:26 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe,

Doesn't the fact that Christie has ceased selling their basement readers pretty much answer that one? Dealing with these has become a small war as you more than well know. The key word here is "support" from Christie. The answer is of course to admit fault and send over penthouse readers. Will they? Who knows, but you can damn well bet with the fights I've had with their readers getting them to track acceptably, any half-assed solution will be WELL documented here. Perhaps on every page of the site! People must know. Do I see a Joe basement reader review coming?

I've not had problem one with a Dolby penthouse reader aside of having to realign one that was dropped and although I've never used Kelmar's basement readers, the Component Engineering I have set up and aligned tracked very well in a Simplex with no problems of any sort.

I have been quite pleased with the results from Kelmar analog-only readers though and have installed many of them. (I prefer to install analog-only readers with a Dolby penthouse...not basement combo readers.) Out of all the ones I installed, I had one bad cell and one bad power supply and Kelmar overnighted replacements at no charge. Now THAT's backing a product!!! Their product is good and with that kind of service, I will continue to recommend them on all my installs.

(Incidentally, I have consistently found that with Kelmar's power supply set to it's absolute minimum output setting, the preamp gains on the processor always are no more than 3 turns from zero to get the signal DOWN to Dolby level. That leaves an awful nice room for turning up that led as it ages. )


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Dave Cutler
Master Film Handler

Posts: 277
From: Centennial, CO
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 07-06-2000 10:25 AM      Profile for Dave Cutler   Email Dave Cutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How long should an LED last in a basement reader. My theatre is about 2.5 years old and a few of the LED's I have had to crank all the way up. Some still aren't at Dolby level. I have Component Engineering readers for both analog and SRD.

Am I doing something wrong? Or do they just age like the SDDS LED's which I have heard need to be replaced about every 3 years.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-06-2000 01:57 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder if your CE leds were installed with the power supply set at "half" to begin with, effectively killing your useful life.

I find SDDS leds must be changed every year and tweeked every 3 months to keep them running.


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Ari Nordström
Master Film Handler

Posts: 283
From: Göteborg, Sweden
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-06-2000 03:10 PM      Profile for Ari Nordström   Email Ari Nordström   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stephen,

The Kinoton readers I heard about are all installed at one single multiplex in Stockholm. According to one of their projectionists, they have had very few SRD shows without drop-outs, and quite a lot of them had so many that it was pointless to run the sound digitally at all (unless DTS discs were available).

As for Cinemeccanica, the older combo readers weren't particularly good, but a recent update I saw and experienced impressed me enough to force me to reconsider. They aren't as good as Dolby's, though.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-06-2000 03:47 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Moral of the story
BASEMENT READERS SUCK but some Suck more than others


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-07-2000 03:51 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But Gordon, what about the Christie readers? The projector has that 'Christie Quality Control' sticker on it, so that means everything in the projector is quality assured, right? Quality is definitely assured. Not necessarily good quality....

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