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Topic: ORC BULBS

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-22-2000 10:56 AM

Has anyone actually had an ORC lamp that has made it all the way to then end of it's warranty period with become either had to start, flicker, or go dark quickly
I have yet to see one and find it very scarry that they are now marketing a 15k for the large format industry

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-22-2000 11:49 AM

I think buying cheap (ORC) lamps is a false economy. When we first opened the theatre they bought us ORC. We'd be lucky if they made it to 750 hours (4200W).

Even then, knowing as little as I did, I KNEW there must be a better lamp. I checked into it and found out that Osram made xenons. Since I'd heard of Osram's good reputation. (They are part of Sylvania) I hypothesised that they MUST be better. They couldn't be any worse.

I did a little bit of math and figured that if ORC is 20% cheaper than Osram but Osram lasts 25-30%longer, you'll get a 5-10% savings. After a few months of b**ching and crying to the bosses, I finally got them to order me a couple as a test. They lasted up to the warranty (even longer if you must)and we've been using them ever since.

Frankly, I would be hard-pressed to go back to ORC lamps.

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Michael Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Anchorage, AK
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 06-22-2000 01:43 PM

Wow! I don't know where ORC gets the bulbs they are sending you, but 750 hours is rediculous. I regularly get 3000 hours out of my ORC 4500W's and haven't had one explode or go dead on me in 3 years. Could the difference be lamp-house related? I'm using Strong Super Highlight II's if that helps. Not to be an adamant defender of ORC or anything, but I have never seen the problems referred to.

-Mike

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 06-22-2000 02:08 PM

Proper cooling, pure DC (low current ripple), and operating a xenon lamp within its rated current range are essential for obtaining good xenon lamp performance. Cooling air flow should be at the proper volume and not obstructed (check lamphouse air intakes for dirt buildup). Aging power supplies need to be checked to be sure AC current ripple is acceptably low. Be sure input power to the power supply is correct (e.g., correct voltage, balanced 3-phase line). Running a lamp above its maximum current is dangerous (seal failure and explosion), and dramatically shortens its life. Running a lamp below its recommended current range leads to arc instability and also shortens life.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-22-2000 02:16 PM

When I was in Chicago I sold ORC bulbs exclusively and only had a couple of failures in the 5 years I handled them. Since ORC bulbs have now been through two different ownerships I don't know if they are still as good. If you buy a new Strong Followspot you still get an ORC bulb and I really don't like them doing that. We have had a number of ORC lamps fail in these Followspots in recent time. We use Ushio CXL-20R lamps in all of our rental soptlights and have had no failures in spite of the constant beating and shipping around that these have received.
Overall I prefer Ushio(Christie) bulbs over anything else out there including Osram. Christies warranty return claim seems to happen faster too, and I have only had two failures if Christie bulbs that I can think of in 18 years. One was a 1kw recently that had a seal failure, and the first failure was a new out of the box 3kw that exploded upon its first ignition. They replaced the mirror on that one as well as the lamp.
Overall Ushio is THE 4 star lamp!
Mark

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 06-22-2000 03:21 PM

3000 hours from a 4500 watt ORC bulb? Or even any kind of bulb for that matter...that's insane. I wouldn't go pushing them that far. The cost of a new bulb vs. the light on screen and the cost of a new reflector doesn't add up to savings.

Randy, don't you use CFS lamphouses? If so, ORC bulbs are the worst thing you can put in them. As far as other models, I don't much care for the ORC brand. Some people like 'em, but I don't.

And what's with the little plastic "saran wrap" shoelace-tied on protective cover!?!?!?!?!

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Jason Burroughs
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Allen, TX
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-22-2000 04:18 PM

It would be interresting to see how ORC goes about its 15K bulbs. Dosen't anything above 7K really have to have the bulb itself water cooled? Are the designs drastically different to standard Xenon bulbs or are they pretty similar?

Personally I've never had much luck with the ORC bulbs that I've used. They don't perform as well as similarly rated Osram and Ushio (Christie) bulbs. They also seem to produce alot more infared light than the other manufactures. I managed to get 1200hrs out of a 7Kw bulb and it was fine at that point but said enough was enough (that was with a Christie bulb) Beats the pants off 58hrs or less

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 06-22-2000 10:17 PM

I would assume the ORC 15KW will be water-cooled--all of the 12K and 15K lamphouses I've seen so far have been thusly equipped.

At the now dearly departed Caesars Omnimax we used Duratest 15K. Ran 'em a 1000 hours and changed 'em so as not to void the IMAX service agreement. No problems... Well once, after someone probably didn't clean a new bulb thoroughly enough. It popped at about 45 minutes total running time, naturally during a special school screening. Lots of fun shoveling and mopping out the lamphouse--the mixture of quartz and water reminded me of slushy snowcones--just not as tasty. We were lucky though, no damage to either the reflector or the cold mirrors.

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Mark Huff
Film Handler

Posts: 69
From: Springfield, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 06-22-2000 11:41 PM

I know that no one will agree with me on this but I like the Christie Xenolite bulb. If you are using the CFS console you need the CXL-40SC for short cable.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-23-2000 12:08 AM

Yes, Brad, they are CFS. What is it about the CFS / ORC combo that's so bad?

Since we switched to Christie & Osram almost all of our troubles have gone away.

The college has an ORC lamp in a L.P. Assoc. (Xe-Lamp) 'house. It gives me very little problem. Of course, it gets very little use compared to TT-17.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 06-23-2000 04:03 AM

Mark,

Everyone here likes the Christie bulb. Ushio is another name for them.

Randy,

I don't know the technical reasons why CFS lamphouses don't like ORC bulbs, but they certainly don't!

Christie/Ushio is hands down the best bulb currently out there.

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Michael Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Anchorage, AK
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 06-23-2000 05:24 AM

Hey Brad,

I agree about the stupid "safety" covers on ORC bulbs, I am in no way defending ORC. There have been far too many problems reported here and elsewhere about them for it to be coincidental, but I have really had no problems running them for 3000 hours every time. Very curious... The 3000 hours is not an arbitrary number devised by me, it is actually required by the corporate office. I suppose they want their money's worth, and then some!

-Mike

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-23-2000 07:05 AM

Talk about false economy! The costs of one exploded lamp could far exceed any savings you get from letting them go for so long.

Bust a reflector... Blow a power supply... Glass schrapnel in the projector head... Rain checks & refunds... Down time...
And don't forget the pain in the ass value.

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Mark Huff
Film Handler

Posts: 69
From: Springfield, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 06-23-2000 09:25 AM

Randy,

Let me give you some insight about CFS. Well to start CFS= S**T. We have 18 4500 watt consoles and 1 7k console. The 4500's all have 50 to 52 volts of AC ripple. The 7k has 90 volts of AC ripple. The light produced from the 7k house is 3 footlamberts. I have checked, changed, rewired, tweeked, removed, and adjusted every part on the stupid console and nothing will give me more than 3 footlambers. I have even changed out the power supply. We have had our company engineer (Bob Dorsey) the dumb ass, a tech from NCS (Paul Brown), and three engineers from CFS out to look at this thing and no one can figure out the problem. For those of you wondering yes it was VOLTS of ripple not millivolts as it should be. I have made the last comment in front of the CFS people lets take this junk out and put in a CHRISTIE REFERENCE console. If only dreams would come true.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-23-2000 09:35 AM

You're right on that.
RENTEC = "Repeat Everybody... Now, This Equipment is Crap!

It seems that companies who go for the cheaper stuff don't realize how much money they spend repairing the darned things. At $40 - $50 each, how much money have they spent just replacing diodes? They could have bought better stuff and SAVED money!

The Stage Manager at Mercyhurst doesn't even like ORC! He says that some brands of follow spots come with ORC lamps. He says they pretty much suck. Sometimes they even take the ORC's out and replace them with Osram right off the bat.

Of course ORC is cheaper. The insides are made out of ALUMINUM FOIL!

PS: Bob Dorsey was the Chief Tech. who installed our theatre. I remember him well.

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