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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » EX? Sorry, not with this title... (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: EX? Sorry, not with this title...
John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-09-2000 12:31 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, so Gladiator is in EX...and so is Pitch Black (!) but wouldn't you think MI:2 would be? I mean, it's not like they didn't have enough time to mix it. (It was supposed to come out last December)

Ahhh.... that was money well spent.

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Ari Nordström
Master Film Handler

Posts: 283
From: Göteborg, Sweden
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 06-09-2000 01:51 AM      Profile for Ari Nordström   Email Ari Nordström   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They probably gave the money meant for the EX mix to Tom Cruise.

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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 06-09-2000 11:59 AM      Profile for Michael Barry   Email Michael Barry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Exactly - what's with that? I was called up just before a session was due to start and asked whether I had EX switched in (we have a Panastereo SP23 with a bypass switch).

'Sorry', I replied, 'This film is not EX encoded'.

They seemed sceptical - I mean, I hate to refuse any request, but really...

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Marty Hacker
Film Handler

Posts: 17
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 06-09-2000 03:01 PM      Profile for Marty Hacker   Email Marty Hacker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I thought Tom forked out some of the money for the movie. Why he didn't go the EX route is besides me(could not have been money issues considering they were able to get Limp Bizkit and put that soundtrack together) but since the technology is out there now it would be great to see more and more EX mixes. Although I enjoy 8 channel SDDS I feel EX is a better enhancement for theater sound. Incidently...to all EX users.....Do you always keep your SA-10's in EX mode no matter what feature it is or do you make sure that the unit is displaying the appropriate mode?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-09-2000 04:28 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
If the film is not encoded in EX, it should NOT be played back in EX.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-09-2000 06:54 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad is correct that only EX encoded films should be played in EX mode. The DTS and now the Dolby SA-10 have auto sense for Ex so that should eliminate allot of the problems with do I or don't I. Hopefully the CP-650 will take care of that problem all together.
Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-09-2000 07:20 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you have the Smart FX unit try it as I have found that the CS matrix is very favorable to non ex encoded films especially in theatres that are wide vs there length

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Oscar Neundorfer
Master Film Handler

Posts: 275
From: Senoia, GA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-09-2000 08:03 PM      Profile for Oscar Neundorfer   Author's Homepage   Email Oscar Neundorfer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh, what the heck! I'll go out on a limb here. I am sure there are many who will be willing to saw off the limb I am sitting on!

If you have the SMART ex format decoder, go ahead and play ALL 5.1 digital soundtracks in ex mode. If you don't like it on a particular movie, just turn it off. I am willing to bet that you will like it very much, and there are few films that do not benefit much from this treatment.

And PUH-LEEEZ don't start the "as the film sound mixer/producer intended" argument with me because I don't buy into it for a minute.

Oh well, nothing like a little controversy to liven things up a bit!

------------------
Oscar Neundorfer
Chief Engineer
SMART Devices, Inc.

oscar@smartdev.com

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Russ Kress
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 202
From: Charleston, WV, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-09-2000 10:47 PM      Profile for Russ Kress   Author's Homepage   Email Russ Kress   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Where's my saw!!!!!?? *grin*

My SA-10s do not "auto-sense" EX encoding. Last time I checked, Dolby was still working on it.

Is there a software patch available that will cause the CP-500 to cue to SK-8 when EX encoding is present? Somebody email me!!

Russ

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-10-2000 02:33 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There currently is no auto-EX for the Dolby SA-10. If somebody knows of a way, explain it in this thread right here for all of us to see so we can do it, too.. And yes, I do have version 1.61ex for the CP500 and I do have the automation cable hooked up between the SA-10 and the CP500 and I do have SK8 programmed for Dolby Digital EX.

Mark? Please explain.


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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-10-2000 01:04 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>"And PUH-LEEEZ don't start the "as the film sound mixer/producer
intended" argument with me because I don't buy into it for a minute.

Oh well, nothing like a little controversy to liven things up a bit!

------------------
Oscar Neundorfer
Chief Engineer
SMART Devices, Inc."<<

Just curious, is that SMART's position on cinema sound? That is, They dont' care how it was mixed or intended to sound?

Again, just curious on that one.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Stefan Scholz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 223
From: Schoenberg, Germany
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 06-10-2000 01:42 PM      Profile for Stefan Scholz   Author's Homepage   Email Stefan Scholz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have tested the Smart box, and have to admit, that it worked quite well, even on soundtracks not encoded. Only drawback is the reduced Signal to noise ratio compared to the straight mode. But the audible hiss is not as bad as with the SA 10, and audibly decoding was superior.
I have to admit I never made measurement, so I could just say it works.

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Oscar Neundorfer
Master Film Handler

Posts: 275
From: Senoia, GA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-12-2000 06:42 AM      Profile for Oscar Neundorfer   Author's Homepage   Email Oscar Neundorfer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>Just curious, is that SMART's position on cinema sound? That is, They dont' care how it was mixed or intended to sound?

Again, just curious on that one.

Steve<<

Well, Steve, you have certainly taken my comments on the topic of EX and whether all 5.1 soundtracks should be played in ex format mode when using a SMART ex format decoder and expanded it to include the entire realm of film sound!! You may think it is a perfectly logical conclusion to which you can leap, but I assure you that is not the case.

It has been, and continues to be, SMART's position that with the _SMART_ (not other brands)ex format decoder, you should play all your 5.1 soundtracks in ex format mode. If a particular film does not play back well in this mode, then push the little red button to the out position and continue on.

It is also SMART's position that given whatever situation you are in with regard to your booth equipment, auditorium acoustics, speakers, etc., you should do all you can to maximize the presentation for your audience.

It is SMART's opinion that playing 5.1 soundtracks in ex format mode on SMART products gives the customer a better presentation of the soundtrack. From MANY comments we have received in this regard from our customers, this opinion is justified. It may not agree with the opinions of others, but then I do not expect everyone to agree.

There are many things of a practical nature that prevent soundtracks being heard by the audience exactly as the sound mixer intended.

1. The acoustics are different (usually greatly different) from those of the mix room.

2. The sound mixer sits in the perfect spot for sound. The vast majority of your audience does not. Do you give them a reduced ticket price depending on the position in the auditorium?

3. The equipment in your booth is probably different from the equipment in the mix room. There are several sound equipment manufacturers as you well know, and their sound processing is not always exactly like some other manufacturer's.

4. Do you always play the film at the recommended level? What if it is just too loud for your audience or auditorium? Maybe you have sound leakage problems, or perhaps you care about your customers' hearing, so you cut the level a bit. Is that what the sound mixer intended?

5. Do you have the same sub-bass level and extension as that in the mix room? Nothing adds impact like deep, tight sub-bass. Is yours as good as the mix room's?

6. Is your auditorium noise at acceptable levels like the mix room?

Bottom line is this: SMART _does_ care that the best possible presentation, within the limitations of your theater, be provided for the audience. Sometimes that means doing things differently in order to achieve that goal.

Best regards,


------------------
Oscar Neundorfer
Chief Engineer
SMART Devices, Inc.

oscar@smartdev.com

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Marty Hacker
Film Handler

Posts: 17
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 06-12-2000 11:49 AM      Profile for Marty Hacker   Email Marty Hacker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oscar:

NC criteria issues
Room acoustics (RT-60)issues
Bass Management issues
Even coverage, EQ and SPL issues

Sounds like SMART also is pushing THX sound systems.
hehe

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-12-2000 02:24 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Think about it....

Sound mixers mix loud sound all day long almost every day. There is a probability that their hearing is slowly becoming damaged. So they crank the levels up even higher so it sounds loud to them!

It is irrelevant what we think.

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