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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Fader Settings in Theatres... What's yours at? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Fader Settings in Theatres... What's yours at?
Ted Costas
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Hollywood, CA, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-05-2000 01:31 PM      Profile for Ted Costas   Email Ted Costas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Film handlers of the world... I am seeking your assistance. The TASA (Trailer Audio Standards Association) Program has been in effect for one year now. The purpose of this program is to improve the way features are presented, by limiting the loudness of trailers. Previous to June 1, 1999, NATO was receiving 200 complaints a month on the excessive volume of trailers. Since then, complaints have dropped significantly. As of June 1, 1999, TASA has been regulating the volume of trailers by establishing an upper limit which all trailers must abide by. The MPAA is enforcing the upper limit of every trailer released, and is currently running the administration of the TASA Program.

The problem is, trailers are played so loud, that the faders are being turned down to compensate for the excessive volume... and they are not being turned back up for the feature. Hence, the presentation of the feature is being affected by the trailer. TASA was put in place to bring the features back up... by bringing the trailers back down. Make sense?

What I would like to know is:

A) What is your fader set at? (average)
B) Can you tell me the screen number and the Theatre location?
C) Have you turned your fader up at all in the last year?

The TASA committee has been slowly lowering the volume of trailers, and although the complaints have decreased. I would like to know if the purpose has been addressed... Are the faders coming back up, or does TASA have to keep lowering the volume?

And before you bash TASA, let me say that it is a slow process... Due to the numerous trailers that play for long and short periods, TASA cannot effectivly lower the
upper limit too fast or the disparity between trailers released under the upper limit and those released ealier would be significant. That is why we are cycling the upper limit down slowly, one db every six months or so.

I'd appreciate your help in finding out if this is working, and / or if it is working too slowly and needs a swift kick in the pants.

Thank you,
Ted Costas
Manager, THX Theatre Alignment Program

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 06-05-2000 03:26 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
WE ususlly have our SRD at 5.4, never touched it. people havent complained so it stays. as for SR is preset at 6.0. We are the Fargo Theatre in Fargo ND. I guess that's it

Josh

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-05-2000 03:57 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Regardless of where I work or what the systems are, I always have set the trailer fader 10db lower than the feature. Currently this is done on CA21 automations, but before that I utilized a little remote fader trick of mine to accomplish the volume change automatically. The trick is in the "Tips" section at the bottom of the screen.

I can only think of 2 features that were not ran at 85db...The Mummy and The Messenger due to incredibly harsh mixing. Trailers are 10db lower for every channel. Lately however, this has been reduced to about 8-9db, but I've noticed a lot of inconsistency between trailers. Some are now too loud and some are too soft. Personally, I'd rather have a certain date set and WHAM, that's it. It would be easier to deal with drastic inconsistancies for one month than minor inconsistancies spread out for a couple of years.

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Ari Nordström
Master Film Handler

Posts: 283
From: Göteborg, Sweden
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 06-05-2000 04:16 PM      Profile for Ari Nordström   Email Ari Nordström   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For what it is worth:

a) 7.0 average, for SR/SR-D features, 6.5 seems to be the average for Dolby A, and 7.0 for mono.

Back in the good old days when we were an "ordinary" commercial establishment (we screen classics and run previews these days, plus a film festival, and- but you don't want to know this), we set the volume separately for each trailer, to give the audience the best presentation we possibly could. We were, and are still, a chgangeover house, so the projectionist's got plenty of time for this.

b) The Draken, Göteborg, Sweden (only one screen; curiously listed as "Folkets Hus 1" at Dolby's SR-D website... Folkets Hus are the owners, but the theatre's not been renamed just yet, thankfully...)

c) Up, and down, and up, and down, and...

At the local multiplex, the answers would be quite different...

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-05-2000 04:43 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For first-run mainstream stuff, I'd say that 7.0 is reasonable for a house that's 2/3 full of people. I really haven't noticed that the trailer situation has improved at all in the last year--they're still too loud relative to the feature.

For earlier shows (which would draw fewer people), I'd tend to turn the fader down a bit; for Fri/Sat evening shows that sell out, I'd tend to turn it up a bit.

For art/foreign/rep stuff, fader settings can be and are all over the place. Trailers for art-house films are usually not overly loud, so the issue here is more related to the feature.

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Colin Wiseley
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Blacksburg, VA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-05-2000 08:02 PM      Profile for Colin Wiseley   Email Colin Wiseley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We don't get trailers too often for the films we show, but I have noticed that volume levels of the trailers and features are evening out. We used to run the trailers at 5.5 and then jump up to 6.0 - 6.5 for the feature but now can run both at the same level most of the time.

One exception would be Beautiful People, an English film. Both the trailer and the movie itself were loud just at 5.0. It was the first time I ever had to turn the volume up for the trailers and then down for the feature.

------------------
Colin Wiseley
Lyric Theatre
Blacksburg, VA
www.thelyric.com

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Aaron Mehocic
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 804
From: New Castle, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-05-2000 09:30 PM      Profile for Aaron Mehocic   Email Aaron Mehocic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I run nine screens and all faders are set at 5.0 regardless of equipment. This setting is maintained for both trailers and feature. We have no problems or complaints whatsoever.

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Russ Kress
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 202
From: Charleston, WV, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-05-2000 11:30 PM      Profile for Russ Kress   Author's Homepage   Email Russ Kress   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Every now and then we'll get a trailer that is outrageously loud. Usually, we'll just replace it with something else to avoid possibly playing the feature at too low of a sound level.

Brad is absolutely right. Standardise the levels now and deal with it for a month.

Then you can just call it fixed!

Russ

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Sean M. Grimes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: Lunenburg, MA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 06-06-2000 08:02 AM      Profile for Sean M. Grimes   Author's Homepage   Email Sean M. Grimes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I run a thirteen plex for Hoyts in Syracuse N.Y. in my smaller houses (118 or so) I will run the trailers at five and the feature at six and a half. In my D.T.S houses I run at six period and in my SRD houses I run at seven. All of my houses have been realistically calibrated at eighty five d.b. but with at least three thousand watts in my small houses and close to six thousand in my four hundred seaters the smaller houses just "push" too much. I agree whole heartedly with Brad give em a cut off point for their 1 to 1 compression and please just get it over with.


thankyou soo much for checking with this forum if there were ever a bunch of people I would ask a standing for this would be the bunch.

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Marty Hacker
Film Handler

Posts: 17
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 06-06-2000 03:17 PM      Profile for Marty Hacker   Email Marty Hacker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ted,
I run a THX complex in Tijuana, Mexico.
All of my screens are perfectly calibrated with EQ/ and SPL levels settings to industry standards. 85dbc screen channels, 82 surrounds and 88-89dbc (digital subwoofer)

I have dolby digital in all auditoriums with 6 movable DTS units and 4 SDDS units. Again, no matter which unit is playing where all spl levels remain the same.

Essentially all my auditoriums can play feature at "reference" level.
My trailers start out at 5.3 then my automations bump up the faders to no more than 6.5 depending on the pre-screened feature. Any exceptions to this rule are sold out shows in which fader is allowed to reach 7.0.

Hope this helps,
Marty
Fader levels NEVER exceed 7.0

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Kevin Crawford
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 207
From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-06-2000 05:50 PM      Profile for Kevin Crawford   Email Kevin Crawford   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good God. I think I am the only one here that sets the fader low. My own theatre runs at about 5 to 5.5. This is a sub run theatre, so people do not expect too much.
However, I do service for several other theatres. I do not see any of them with a setting over 5.5, ever. One of our theatres even plays trailers in Dolby A, to cut down on complaints. That is Jack London Cinemas in Oakland. The theatres in Davis Ca. run between 4.5 and 5, however, the people in Davis are a bit picky. They have arrested a woman for snoring too loud.

I do agree with what everyone else is saying, let's get this overwith. A couple of months of dealing with the problem is a lot better than a couple of years.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-06-2000 10:29 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd say things are better than they were. We get a lot less complaints lately. We still get a few, though.

We have still been turning the faders down to compensate for the difference but I notice it is less.

Our faders stay on approx. "5". They could be as high as "6" but we are in a smaller town and people just LIKE the volume lower.

I'd say just get the volume lowering overwith. Most trailers only play for a month or so.

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Scott D. Neff
Theatre Dork

Posts: 919
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 06-07-2000 02:33 AM      Profile for Scott D. Neff   Author's Homepage   Email Scott D. Neff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know what db level Aaron Sisemore has set all our systems to --- but we usually keep our faders at 7 for an analog performance and usually down to 5 for a Digital Performance.

We have the SDDS turned to -1.8 so people don't complain TOO much about the sound (which I can hear in my office behind three sets of closed doors)

But that's usually how it works for us. Unless it's a packed house - then we turn Digital up to 6.5 so we can blow people away with our "Might As Well Be THX Sound" sound system.

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Carl King
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 199
From: Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 06-08-2000 09:31 PM      Profile for Carl King   Email Carl King   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I run 7 screens and depending on the size of the house my faders are between 5 and 6 regardless of digital or stereo.

I have noticed a great differance in trailer volumes and I'm pleased that someone had finally realized that the goal is quality and not neccessarily quantity. Good sound is always better than big sound

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-10-2000 05:05 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I keep mine at around 6. If we get a lot of older people, then it goes down to about 5-1/2. I like and enjoy listening to movies at 7, but our audience skews older and I know they wouldn't like it if we played that loud.

I don't believe in the "set it and leave it" method, since some producers/directors just like to make ultra-loud movies, audiences be damned. Gotta compensate for that, or we'd lose business. Of course it makes it easier when I only have one screen to do a listen-test on! (I just KNEW there were advantages to being a single-screen!)

For what it's worth, we've had DTS since '94 and stereo (with subs) since '92 and I have never once had a complaint that it's "too soft," and only two or three "too louds" a year. Mostly I get 'comments' (like "That was a loud one, wasn't it?")....when they say that, it is probably too loud.

As far as trailers, some are too loud, some too soft. I agree with the crowd...cut the volume now, all at once.


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