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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Anyone ever seen a XeTron Loop-Matic? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Anyone ever seen a XeTron Loop-Matic?
Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 05-20-2000 09:51 AM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anyone ever see a Loop-Matic, or have a book on one? This was the bifilar-wound continuous loop system. Very impressive, but I've heard they were too complicated for lowly button-pushers to build prints onto.

It was two vertical, open-style reels, placed in the same position as you'd locate a platter. The print was double-wound back on itself, on a reel (like you'd roll-up a sound loop, without breaking the splice apart). One side of the loop fed directly down to the takeup reel and the front half through the machine. Half way through the film, some arms would trip, which would reverse the direction of the reels, and reattach the film to the (now) empty supply reel. Then the second-half of the program finished and the process repeated at the end/beginning of the show. All this time, the projector ran continuously, with no interruption. It was pretty fantastic, from all accounts. I'd love to have seen one in action!

I only had a sales sheet on one of these things, but it looked like it'd be the only continuous loop system that would work.

Any war stories?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-20-2000 02:02 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Is there a picture of that on your sales sheet I could post to this thread? I'm not 100% understanding the principle of the machine here.

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Russ Kress
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 202
From: Charleston, WV, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 05-20-2000 02:43 PM      Profile for Russ Kress   Author's Homepage   Email Russ Kress   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe I was shown one on these once during a tour of The Commodore Dinner Theatre in Portsmouth, VA, but it has been awhile.

Russ

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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Olympia, Wash. USA
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 - posted 05-20-2000 03:28 PM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would like to see a picture of it, too.

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John Walsh
Film God

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From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
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 - posted 05-20-2000 04:09 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is that the thing with a whole bunch of rollers arranged around (what looks like) the top of a platter deck?

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
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 - posted 05-20-2000 05:12 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think that was the Potts endless loop disaster

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

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From: Northampton, PA
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 - posted 05-20-2000 10:06 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wish I still had the sheet, it had a beautiful picture of both sides of the unit. XeTron (Carbons, Inc.) used to advertise the heck out of it in the early 70s, in Boxoffice. I fell in love with it, but never got to see one.

It does not resemble a platter in the least and, Brad, I did not fully understand the operation either, until I took 20-30 ft of film, spliced it in a loop and "tested" it on the bench. It's one of those things that's brilliantly simple. It would even work without fail using the polyester film because, in that respect, it'd be like running it on reels.

I did learn that, in order to make-up a print, you first must measure each reel out to the foot. The makeup section holds TWO exchange reels. When you calculate the EXACT center of the movie, begin the makeup there, forming a loop, which is inserted in the center hub of the Loop-Matic reel. Whenever a head or tail is reached, stop and splice the next reel and proceed. You're actually winding onto the Loop-Matic TWO lengths of film, from two different shipping reels, at once. When you're all done, you end-up with the head of reel one and the tail of the last reel, which you then splice together and thread through the machine. Then you're done until the next change of bill.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
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 - posted 05-20-2000 10:54 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, I believe that the Commodore Theatre (Portsmouth, VA.) still has one of these, although they were using giant Cinerama-size reels and a separate reel-handling unit (which sat behind the Cinemeccanica V8) when I was last there.

Apparently, the disadvantage of the Loop-Matic system was that you could only run one film at any given time and that film changes would be cumbersome at best. Interesting idea, though...

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Christos Mitsakis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 242
From: Ag.Paraskevi, ATHENS, GREECE
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 05-21-2000 02:44 AM      Profile for Christos Mitsakis   Email Christos Mitsakis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since I haven't figured out yet how to put images in these posts I sent a scan of the Loopmatic principle to Brad in order to post it here.
It is a scan from SMTE journal Dec 1976
form Bernard Happe presentation of Photokina 76.
I hope you will find it enlighting.

I haven't seen one for real but I belive making up a print for
the loopmatic seems to be time consuming.

Christos.


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Tim Reed
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From: Northampton, PA
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 - posted 05-21-2000 10:23 AM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
TERRIFIC! Thanks for the info, Christos, I can't wait to see it!

Agreed, Scott. It probably wouldn't be a good idea in this day and age, where managers like to play "musical auditoriums" with the prints. But in the late 60s/early 70s, prints would stay for months (or years) sometimes.

Of everything I've read about this device (several manufacturers abroad had their own versions), it seems to have Russian origins. Last I heard, it was still used extensively over there.

Bring on the diagrams!

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Brad Miller
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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
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 - posted 05-21-2000 02:13 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Christos,

F.Y.I. I have not yet received an email with the scan as of yet. Please check the address and send again. Thanks.

Flix@film-tech.com

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John Walsh
Film God

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From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 05-21-2000 07:41 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, I also was interested in this thing. At first I thought it was some platter-like thing I saw many years ago at a SMPTE convention, but that was from Potts (and another tip o' the hat to Gordon's great memory!)

Anyway, when Christos mentioned the SMPTE journal it is shown in, I looked it up. It says that it was just distributed by Xetron (then Carbons, Inc.) It was made by Famco AG of Vaduz, Leichtenstein.

"The principle is known as bi-filar winding, the looped film being wound as a double-layer spiral on one spool."

When the drawing is posted, it's easy to see how it works. It is pretty cool.

The article also shows two pictures of projectors with platters mounted directly under the lamp. One was a Philips Kinton FP30, and the other was a Bauer U6.

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Tim Reed
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From: Northampton, PA
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 - posted 05-22-2000 07:37 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks John for the info!

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Brad Miller
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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
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 - posted 05-23-2000 05:18 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Here it is.




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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

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From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 05-24-2000 09:53 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Beautiful, isn't it?

Brad: did you get any other pictures? This says Fig. 10 and 11, like there's at least nine more... I'd like to see how the reel-reversals takes place.

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