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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » DTS - moment of silence? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: DTS - moment of silence?
Scott Magie
Film Handler

Posts: 73
From: St. Albans, VT USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-07-2000 12:23 AM      Profile for Scott Magie   Email Scott Magie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let me preface this post by saying that the following situation has occurred ONCE. Shows prior to and after this have run perfectly. Could this just be a DTS gremlin that dropped by for a one-time visit or is it a sign that something bad is going on?

Here's the situation...
Today, someone comes out of Frequency and politely (yeah right) informs me that there is no sound. I peak in the auditorium on my way to the booth and the DTS is booming away. The man mumbles something like, "Well, it WASN'T working... and we missed like two minutes of important stuff!" I paused to feel the man's pain, then headed to the booth, where everything was perfectly normal... reader was reading, disks were blinking their proper cadence, etc.
I pay my dues by watching things for a few minutes, then return to the concession stand. Two minutes later a different person emerges, this one even more "polite" than the first. I repeat my procedure, but this time I'm able to personally witness the lack of sound in the auditorium. "Yup, that's a problem," I say as I bolt for the booth. The person kindly informs me that I'm right, it IS a problem, "and especially because this is an action, suspense movie." Like she would want to watch a romantic comedy without any sound! Anyway, when I reach the booth, I notice that everything looks fine still. Instinctively, I punch the SR button, to appease the maddening crowd.
So anyway, that's my story. What get's me is that it didn't switch to SR if there was a problem with the DTS. In the past, that's what has happened. But it stayed on DTS, pumping silence into the auditorium.

So I'm at a loss. And please, I'd appreciate it if your answers were dumbed down a bit. I've learned everything I know by trial and error and I'm just starting to fiddle with some of the sound stuff but I don't know anything about. Even stuff like cards and processors bring a blank look to my face, so if there's a simple explanation for what happened, I'd love to hear it. If a more technical explanation is necessary, fire away but I'll be giving my computer that blank stare, guaranteed.

And again, remember... we've had perfect showings of Frequency before and after this incident.

------------------
Scott A. Magie

scoooot@hotmail.com
"Anybody wanna peanut?"

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Andrew D'Vrey
Film Handler

Posts: 92
From: St. Paul, MN USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-07-2000 12:27 AM      Profile for Andrew D'Vrey   Email Andrew D'Vrey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What type of Fader are you using?

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"And the monkey flips the switch."
- Major Don West, "Lost In Space"

Andrew D'Vrey
IATSE Local 219

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-07-2000 04:06 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Fader???

Tell us what kind of projector the DTS reader is mounted on, if there are any other digital readers mounted on top of it as well as the DTS one, what order (from top to bottom) the digital readers are mounted, what kind of platter is handling the film, what kind of sound processor you are using (Dolby, Ultra Stereo, SMART, etc and the model number), and finally, do you have a 2 drive or a 3 drive DTS unit? Also, please let us know if the cd rom drives are the originals. All of these things can cause the problem you described and are generally easily remedied.

Then we can help.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-07-2000 10:25 AM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't why its dropping out in the first place, but as to why its not switching back to SR, I have an idea. We had this problem a little while ago, the processor would just not switch back to SR, not for non-DTS trailers, not for anything. We originaly thought it was a problem with the SMART processor, but after our tech talked to SMART on the phone, we found out that it was in fact the DTS unit. You see, when the DTS unit 'senses' that their isn't any sound, it should send a signal to the SMART unit telling it to switch to SR. Ours wasn't sending this signal. Check for a broken wire or lose connection. If its not that your unit may have to be sent in for repair.

Or I could be completely wrong . This is just one possibility. All I know is when Green Mile dropped out of DTS, and therefore had no sound, for 5 minutes when our district manager was sitting in there with a sold out crowd-which we had to give refund tickets too-we pulled the unit and sent it in for repairs immediatly, no questions asked .

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-07-2000 10:39 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The length of pulse that the DTS sends out to revert to analogue may not be longesnough to trigger the format switching in the processor
This is a big problem with CP65's and UltraStereo
To the processor manufacturers credit the long pulse length is required to increase noise imunity but the reversion problem suck
I finally got so pissed at one theatre we are order a bunch of the CP200 breakout relay boards and cutting the input to the EQ traces on the Ultrastereo and route it throuh this board as I have never not seen them work
Not elegant but it will work
(If it doesn't it is a thermal nuclear device for it)
Also is it one of the newer or the older white units.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-07-2000 02:45 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gord, Yes the inputs to all Dolby and Ultras and most other ptrocessors are debounced. This does require a bit longer hold but this is really more of a DTS problem not providing adaqute pulse duration. Typically 80 to 100 milliseconds or so should do it for most. You could build a small pulse stretcher circuit quite easily to install on the DTS line rather than go through all the trouble with the CP-200 kludge cards.
Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-07-2000 02:53 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dolby provides a pulse stretcher for the CP65 for use with the DA20 already.
It is still not the most reliable

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-07-2000 05:23 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gord:

Are you referring to the Cat. 410? If so, it isn't a pulse stretcher but a time-constant contractor!

It places a smaller value resistor in parallel to the debounce resistor to allow it to switch faster to format 05 so as to minimize the "pop" and no sound time.

Whom ever thought it was a good idea to wait until the very last bit left the processor before sending the "fallback" signal (ie go to SR) should be taken out back and beaten sensless. When you KNOW you are going to lose digital signal (and with the Dolby digital system, it knows it is going to lose digital when the buffer isn't full up to the sync delay) why wait to the last bit...switch .5 sec early, it really doesn't matter since you are not going to switch back and forth in the .5 second (or you shouldn't if you don't want to call attention to the problem).

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-07-2000 05:49 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I personally have never had any problems with the DTS switching formats on the CP65's, but have had that problem on the Ultra's. Not every Ultra in the building, though, just some of them.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-07-2000 06:17 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On the Ultras they have optoisolators on the input lines and I think the fet output is what is determining the time constant of the switching
The relay board is the most simple method
I tend to belive in the Kiss principle under these circumstances
"Keep It Simple Stupid"

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-07-2000 06:33 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Still needing the specifics on the equipment here, but one thing that has happened before is if the unit was recently moved (or someone was in the back of the rack for whatever reason), the jumper to switch back to "A" or "SR" could've fallen off of the automation board with a CP65.

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Tom Ferreira
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 203
From: Conway, NH, USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-08-2000 07:39 AM      Profile for Tom Ferreira   Email Tom Ferreira   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good Lord, guys-Scott asked if you could please dumb it down!
I had this problem for a while-do you have the 6D(three drive)unit, or the old two drive? Mine turned out to be a bad patch cable between the DTS unit and the Smart processor.
Make sure the reader is clean and free of gunk-I blow it out everyday. Where it isn't a continuous problem(Is it kicking out at the same point every showing?),it it is, it could be the print-I've also had bad disks-it is a possibility. Is there a possibility the drives could need to be cleaned? Do check all your wiring and connections.

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Tom Ferreira
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 203
From: Conway, NH, USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-08-2000 07:42 AM      Profile for Tom Ferreira   Email Tom Ferreira   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK-so Scott did say it didn't happen again-could it have been dust in the reader? I'd keep a close eye on it...

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Scott Magie
Film Handler

Posts: 73
From: St. Albans, VT USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-08-2000 11:27 PM      Profile for Scott Magie   Email Scott Magie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Okay sorry it took so long for me to get back with more details.
-DTS is only digital reader
-Century projector
-some Potts Inc. platter system
-3 drive DTS unit (don't know if they're original drives or not)
-I'll have to check on the processor, but I'm leaning toward Dolby... no clue on model number since I'm not even sure it's Dolby.

Sorry for the sketchy details. This is my new theater and I've been too busy cleaning 1/2 inch of coagulated peanut oil off of the popper to memorize what I have in my booths yet. I'll check on model numbers, etc. and post again Tuesday night.

------------------
Scott A. Magie

scoooot@hotmail.com
"Anybody wanna peanut?"
------------------
ps- The reader is not dirty. I've seen very dirty readers working fine and this one was freshly cleaned days ago.


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-09-2000 01:29 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you have a 3 drive DTS unit and are playing movies less than 2 years old, it doesn't matter if the jumper that says "SR" or "A" is engaged or not. The DTS disc tells the unit what format to fall back into as the mixers of the disc know what analog format the film is in. I purposely leave all of these jumpers off and have never ever had a problem. The jumper is provided for those people who don't have SR, at least in my guess. Otherwise it serves no purpose whatsoever (for me). It is useful if you don't want the digital falling into Non-Sync during the credits, which many DTS discs tell the player to do if the timecode disappears during that period of the film.


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