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Author Topic: No DTS Disks=Bad Movie? Tom Ferreira Expert Film Handler Posts: 203 From: Conway, NH, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-06-2000 08:04 AM                     In the past two weeks, I've gotten in two prints from major studios that do not have the DTS time code. Is adding the time code and burning the disks that big an expense that it doesn't make it worth it for some films? Actually, the bigger question is-does Sony have absolutely no faith in "I Dreamed Of Africa", and Fox in "Where The Heart Is". Obviously with one DTS setup, I'm going to play "Gladiator" in there, and neither of these films, but it's nice to have the choice. Can we now assume that if we open the film cans on Thursday and there's no DTS disks, that the studio thinks the film sucks, and expects it to probably tank? Damn, even "Screwed" in in DTS-how do Sony, Fox, and Paramount determine which films are worthy of this extra expense?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-06-2000 08:10 AM                     Thats the main reason we really only push SRD systems in general to our customers. The day it takes after you call in to tell your distributer/whoever that the disks are missing could mean that you will be missing the digital track on the opening/biggest night of the new release. SRD really has become the universal digital track of todays films. I also see it on more and more artsy type and foreign films too. Mark  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 05-06-2000 02:45 PM                        I have to agree with Mark. Although I prefer the sound quality and reliability of DTS, Dolby Digital is much more universal. If I had my way, every auditorium would have both DTS and SRD. Play in DTS when you can, unless you have a double and must switch discs each show, if a feature doesn't come with DTS, or if the discs are bad (it happens).  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 05-06-2000 04:10 PM                     My ideal booth would have all SRD and a few roaming DTS machines for use on those very occasional DTS only prints and for when a print comes in with a defective SRD track. I agree with Joe DTS sounds a bit better, but Mark's hit it right on the money SRD is the format to push for on installs. However, I still prefer a DA20 with a CP65 over a loaded CP500 for sound quality. And yes Tom, generally that means the movie is crap.  |  IP: Logged Nic Margherio Film Handler Posts: 91 From: St. Louis MO, USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-06-2000 06:06 PM                     Few things irk me more than to see an attached trailer carry all three digital formats only to drop two of them (SDDS and DTS in the case of "Where the Heart Is") at the start of the reel. Do the studios really think they can influence an exhibitor's decision as to what digital sound format to use? I know Universal contributed to the success of DTS by using it exclusively for years, but they did that with big movies like "Jurassic Park" and "Lost World" - movies that you would regret not presenting in digital, but "Where the Heart Is"?!?!? Come on Fox, your only hurting yourselves by not allowing exibitors to offer the best possible presentation of YOUR movie.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-06-2000 07:54 PM                     It is funny for I very rarely ever have canadian theatres not getting the DTS disks at opening or even at the second run theatres I usually still feel for second run theatres DTS is a better choice becuse it is not bothered by print wear raising the error rate  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-06-2000 09:13 PM                     Joe, I definately agree that DTS sounds better....but you really have to be in a theater that has a darn good system to tell the difference. I'd say that at the average Cineplex/General Cinema you would not be able to distinguish between the two. Selling SRD only booths has not been a problem. If you do have to play analog track, they sound so darn good scanned with an LED reader and decoded with real SR cards that sometimes even then its hard to tell if its analog or digital. True Lies was one film that comes to mind as its SR track was superb. Going to Digital really only gave you the added benefit of descrete seperation and more going on in the surrounds. I have not had any problems with excessively high error rate in 2nd run situations.....no more problems than say with brand new prints being occasionally defective. These are all Cat 700/701 installations though. I have had trouble with basement readers..mainly in Christies. But no trouble with basement readers in Century/Simplex other than them getting dirty once in a while. Mark  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 05-07-2000 04:11 AM                     I understand Christie has given up the sale of basement readers for thieir projectors. Now it's penthouse or nothing.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-07-2000 10:12 AM                     Its really a shame, as it can work but just gets full of snow over a short period of time. This necessitates taking it all apart and cleaning/realignment. Plus they still don't have the soundhead problems totally straightened out either. If they would only go to round tooth double sided timmng belts!!*&#%$!! That would take care of most of the problem. Mark  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-07-2000 10:52 AM                     Actually Christies pivot point damper is already borrowing some of the eprad soundhead design so I have sort of wondered why not steal the hole thing with a ptr type scanner and the whiffle tree When set up they worked very well just the manufactureing tolerance were not the best  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-07-2000 02:36 PM                     Gord, The whole problem with the Christie GP version is the fact that they use standard square tooth X-L type belts, and one is two sided. If they went to rounded tooth belts this problem would all disappear. Strong went that way finally on the 5 star after years of problems. My older P35 Ser# 47 does not have any wow and flutter problem at all. Most likely due to the fact that there are only single sided belts in the machine. You compound the problem when you go double sided as they have chosen to do as the pitch of the belt is slightly different on one side than the other. Personally the older Christie P35 machines are hard to beat and as steady as a Motiograph AA. Wow and flutter on mine dips to just under .09%. That's darn good. Only the Kalee soundhead measures lower at around .07%. Mark  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-07-2000 02:57 PM                     Cinemecanica and Ernaman machines do no use round tooth belts and have no problems with excessive wow and flutter and chrisites problems with the damper didn't materialise until the advent of the thinner estar prints The jitter that the dras10 reads is far less on a acetate print than it is on the estar print The basic problem is that Kelmar (who designed the machine) just didn't understand all the problems of dynamic feedback that are inherent in the Davis tight loop design  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-07-2000 08:07 PM                     Gord, I think yuo missed the point of my posting. Its the fact that they use a double sided square tooth timming belt. The difference in circumfrance from one side to the other causes a slight pitch difference on a given curve of the belt. This generates a ripple even worse than sprocket tooth ripple that cannot be filtered out by the rotary stabilizer. Estar and acetate both run fine on my older Christie P35 that has the shutter gearbox. There is also a measureable difference on the 5 star with square/vs. round tooth timming belts. The round tooth spec flutter is much lower. I have measured all these myself. I'd bet that regardless of whos machine uses square tooth belts, going to round tooth belts will allow some improvement in flutter measurements. Round tooth belts are also stronger as well. Mark  |  IP: Logged Curtis Barnes Film Handler Posts: 15 From: Laguna Hills, CA, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 05-07-2000 09:13 PM                     OK, I am new to this forum, but obviously I am not the only one with severe problems with the Christie Dolby Digital readers. If a round tooth belt design would work, then why don't they use it? The solution just seems too simple to me. My solution is even more simple: Just don't buy Christie.  |  IP: Logged Jason R. Weinsteiger Film Handler Posts: 34 From: Kutztown, PA, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 05-07-2000 10:19 PM                        You think that's weird? We got a print of "The Emperor And The Assassin," a subtitled Chinese film and it was advertised as being in DTS, the only digital system we have. We get it..it has a DTS strip on the film..it says DTS at the end of the credits..but no discs. We called about it, and apparently they just decided not to make the discs. Now it cannot be that expensive to burn 2 CDs. i buy blank CDs for 60 cents each and that's at small quantity. Not only that, but if they took the time to make the strip on the side of the film, why not make the discs? hmm... jasoN ------------------ "That's what life is - a series of down endings. All Jedi had was a bunch of muppets." -Dante Hicks  |  IP: Logged

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