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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Dolby CP65 / SR Advise needed, Cat. 222 or 350? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Dolby CP65 / SR Advise needed, Cat. 222 or 350?
Martin Frandsen
Master Film Handler

Posts: 270
From: Denmark, Europe
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-03-2000 01:37 PM      Profile for Martin Frandsen   Email Martin Frandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As a owner of a CP65 i do not have the SR cards Cat. No. 350 required for SR playback by the CP65. I will upgrade in the near future for SR, as i currently only have A-type now for optical sound.

When going thru the ''manuals-pages'' i found out that Dolby has made a Cat. No. 222 SR/A card, which is a economically way to get SR playback ( you do not need to buy 2 Cat. 350 cards right? ) so the big question is how good does SR sound with the 222 card compaired with the 350 SR cards?

The Cat. 350 has a performance advantage in terms of headroom, but as i understand this extra headroom may only be necessary in the case of playback of an SR magnetic print master from a dubber?

If both card types are plugged in, logic circuits on the backplane will automatically choose the Cat. 350 over Cat. 222.

Again is it worth spending the extra money that the Cat. 350 cards cost?


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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-03-2000 03:11 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Martin,
The main thing here is that you actually have real noise reduction, not some make believe version cloned by another company that thinks theirs is as good. The fact is that no one has been able to make an SR clone that performs as well as a real SR card. Its that plain and simple.
Yes the CAT-350 would be preferable if you think you might run a mag master or need extra headroom,or if you just want the best. But the 222SR/A is really a very good card for general purpose usage. For screenings I use either a pair of CAT 22's or a pair of CAT 280T cards. The 280T cards are also very good sounding but are a waste for theater use as they are record/playback cards and will not plug right in to the 65.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-03-2000 08:38 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is turely a "no-brainer" in your case.

The Cat. 350s are much better than the Cat. 222SR/A (sounding and otherwise) even for optical sound....now the other easy point is cost...

List prices:

Cat. 222SR/A $1995.00
Cat. 350 $900.00

In short, two Cat. 350s are cheaper than one Cat. 222SR/A.

Obviously, you wouldn't be paying list price but for price comparison is makes the point...

It is Cheaper AND better to use the Cat. 350s! for upgrades to the CP-65. The only time there is a cost savings on the Cat. 222SR/A for the CP-65 is on a new purchase.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Russ Kress
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 202
From: Charleston, WV, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 05-03-2000 10:38 PM      Profile for Russ Kress   Author's Homepage   Email Russ Kress   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I still have one or two CP-55s that use SRA5 adapters to house the "real" SR cards. These adapters could probably be mated to the 65 with some soldering on your part. I'm sure Dolby tech support would be glad to help you.

I can honestly, with all my heart, say that I cannot "hear" any difference between the 280T and the 222-SRA. I have been told by everyone (including Dolby), that the 280T is better, but I seriously doubt that you will ever have a customer accuse you of using the 222 if your a-chain is properly alligned.

Pick your battles. Good speakers, sufficient power, and Dolby signal processing will take care of you.

Someone mentioned "icing on the cake" earlier here. They were right. Make sure that what you have is sufficient (and in good working order).

Of course, I am not exposed to magnetic prints. The only time I use SR is in the event that the digital system fails. I was however, a big SR fan before digital took hold. Remember "Rain Man"? We did a premiere for it. We installed SR for the occasion.

Damn!! I'm OLD!!!!!!!

Russ

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Martin Frandsen
Master Film Handler

Posts: 270
From: Denmark, Europe
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-04-2000 04:06 AM      Profile for Martin Frandsen   Email Martin Frandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Difference or not if the prices are all most the same, i'll go for the Cat. 350's.

I just got the idear that the 222 SR-A was much cheaper compaired with the 350's as it is only one card, and has a limited amount of headroom, but again for optical SR soundtracks no differents when listning.

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It's the new small talk. You do it so awfully well! - My Fair Lady

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-04-2000 07:23 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would agree with that Martin. You'd better have a darn good system there to start A-B ing SR cards and hear the difference.
The main reason the 280 cards are so good is because they are all descreet components. On later cards the count was brought way down by using LSI technology. Also the 222 SR/A is really a playback only card.
Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-04-2000 07:34 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>"I can honestly, with all my heart, say that I cannot "hear" any difference between the 280T and the 222-SRA. I have been told by everyone (including Dolby), that the 280T is better, but I seriously doubt that you will ever have a customer accuse you of using the 222 if your a-chain is properly alligned."<<

Actually...it WAS a customer complaint that caused me to get to the bottom of it! I brought over a pair of Cat. 350s and we played the same film off of each and the difference was amazing! The Cat. 222SR/A was quite shrill and had other mistracking artifacts whereas the Cat. 350 was smooth.

Another point I noticed was that the Cat. 222SR/A is more susecptible to light scratches in the soundtrack area (from say the inner flange on some pad rollers). The 222SR/A turned these into bacon frying where as the Cat. 350 tried to kill it. The noise actually increased with the 222SR/A in the SR mode vs the "A" mode.

For your reference...the A-chain was checked and was as good as could be...The particulars of the sound head were:

Component Engineering STR-20C (IR LED reverse-scan) mounted to a Century MTR-4 with the CE dashpot and improved film guidance.

The bottom line with an upgrade is that, on average, it is $150.00 CHEAPER to use the Cat. 350s and they sound as good or BETTER than the alternative.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-04-2000 07:37 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The genereal rumur was that Dolby got stuck with a bunch of consumer type S chips and figured they could adapt them to a optical only SR that was good enough
Go with the discrete SR
Also the Panastereo SR is indistinguishable from the cat 280T ( basis of the patent infringement suite) The new card actually exceeds Dolby's specs, A patent is applied for and will record as well

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Martin Frandsen
Master Film Handler

Posts: 270
From: Denmark, Europe
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-04-2000 10:50 AM      Profile for Martin Frandsen   Email Martin Frandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't no if the Cat. 280 are made anymore, but hearing the comments here they sound to be your favorite SR cards because of there very good discrete build-up.

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It's the new small talk. You do it so awfully well! - My Fair Lady

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-04-2000 11:57 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Martain:

The Cat. 280 (or 280T for theatre use) are most certainly still made and priced identical to the Cat. 350. The 300 series work with different buss levels and have a different edge connector from the Cat. 280 or Cat. 22 series. The Cat. 280 is a plug in replacement to the Cat. 22 where as the Cat 350 is a plug in replacement to the Cat. 450 (A-type). The Cat. 300 has both SR and A noise reductions.

It is a matter of getting the proper card for one's particular application. In your case it is the Cat. 350.

Steve

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Martin Frandsen
Master Film Handler

Posts: 270
From: Denmark, Europe
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-04-2000 02:47 PM      Profile for Martin Frandsen   Email Martin Frandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for all the advice geez there are many different types of SR cards i think i'll be happy with a pair of Cat. 350 cards then!

Time to call my dealer!

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It's the new small talk. You do it so awfully well! - My Fair Lady

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
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 - posted 05-04-2000 03:26 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, as you said Gord....that is a rumor. Dolby would hardly "get stuck" with anything, indeed the 222 SR/A card is a whole new design form the ground up.
Mark

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Christopher Seo
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 530
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-05-2000 03:19 AM      Profile for Christopher Seo   Email Christopher Seo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's a question out of curiosity. What if I had a CP200 with all the proper Cat. 22 cards for playback of A-type 70mm mag, and I wanted to upgrade so I could play back 70mm mag in both A-type and SR. Would I replace all the Cat. 22s with another card? Or would I add on SR-only cards somewhere?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-05-2000 05:29 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The cat 280T is a direct replacement to achieve SR in a CP200.

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Christopher Seo
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 530
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-06-2000 05:08 PM      Profile for Christopher Seo   Email Christopher Seo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah. But would you have to switch out the Cat. 22s and the Cat. 280Ts every time you wanted to change between 6-channel A-type and SR? Or is there a way to fit them all together?

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