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This topic comprises 8 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 
 
Author Topic: The CAP code
John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-17-2000 02:24 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My guess:

It has to be a fairly simple idea to be able to not get 'lost' while being copied by bootleggers. Since revealing exactly what and how the CAP code is used would reduce it's usefulness, it (like submarine positions) is not talked about. If bootleggers knew exactly where and how many times it appered in a film, they might start editing them out- either by electronic means or just chopping out frames. So, it is used to only "find" that bootlegging is occuring. Additional detective work is then used to gather seperate evidence. Only that 'seperate evidence' would be presented in court, without mentioning CAP codes at all, to preserve it's secret. For that same reason the CAP code system has never been patented. So, don't get too upset with JP for not talking.

The CAP code is an sort of 'watermark' that is placed on a release print. Although unobtrusive, it can be viewed even if the overall image quality is fairly low (as with poor cameras and through muliple generations.) It can be added quickly and easily while release prints are being printed (on high-speed printers.) So, it must be an optical process that is as fast (or faster) than the frame rate of high-speed printers. It must connect to a computer (which regular lab staff do not have access to) to keep track of what code was applied to what print. This is why if a theater gets sent the wrong print, they have to break it down and send it back, even if it's the same feature.

Years ago, several people speculated that it is the small white dots that appear at various times during a film, usually soon after a reel change (trying to disguise itself as camera negative dirt.) Although, today with digital equipment, there is no reason it couldn't be another- less noticable color. It wouldn't be right after a reel change, because of the high damage that occurs many times to the heads and tails of film mounted for platter use. In fact, someone could preview the film and find a few frames where it would be especally hard to notice it (an explosion, random colors, etc.) Reels may get mixed, so it would have to appear at least once per reel to sort that out. But I suspect it is applied several times per reel in case a bootlegger only copies a small portion of a film, like a particularly cool scene. Or, in case there just happened to be print damage to one of the areas it was applied. This does not mean that the code has to be the same each time within the print. To fool people looking for a pattern, it could be different every time it is applied.

Now, I don't know for sure how the CAP code works, but I can assure you that it is real, and has been used to bust people. Living near NY, (that hotbed of bootlegging) I've met some (rather creepy) people who used to distribute stuff (they got busted and told me about it.) And, I'm not talking about the obvious, like that copy of "Titanic" with the big Malaysia tax stamp in the corner. Their stuff was reasonable quality, with no obvious identifing marking.

How's that?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-17-2000 03:10 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
My response was to let me get 10 unidentified Film-Techers randomly selected from around the country to shoot right off the screen with whatever video camera they could borrow (an ideal test as there would be random formats and types of cameras used) one reel from each of the volunteer's 10 prints...not the feature...not the audio...just the image on ONE certain reel of my choice from a movie of my choice. The 10 volunteers would then send me those tapes. Once I received all 10, I would then send them to "whomever" and then that whomever would report their findings RIGHT HERE on the forum. Once they were posted, the 10 Film-Tech volunteers would post to make themselves known as well as to verify their theater/print number as to being accurate or not.

If the cap code is real, then there is no better test to spread the word and inflict fear into would-be (or possibly even current) bootleggers. However, if it is not, then this thread will continue to sit here, like I know it will. No one will take a proposition they know they will lose. Simple and plain as that.

I don't buy it for a second.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-18-2000 12:52 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was once told that it's some sort of infra-red signature that's invisible to the naked eye. There's supposed to be some sort of filter that you can hold up to the screen to make it visible. It's supposed to appear like a bar code like in the supermarket.

THIS is the story I was told a couple years ago by one of our techs.

Honestly, I'm not sure I believe it. It SEEMS plausible.

This is the stuff that URBAN LEGENDS are born from!

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Dwayne Caldwell
Master Film Handler

Posts: 323
From: Rockwall, TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 04-18-2000 05:08 AM      Profile for Dwayne Caldwell   Email Dwayne Caldwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maybe one of the creators of the CAP coding process used to work for the NSA. Add that tidbit to your urban legend.

------------------
The man with the magic hands.

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Colin Wiseley
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Blacksburg, VA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-18-2000 06:38 AM      Profile for Colin Wiseley   Email Colin Wiseley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Truth Is Out There!

------------------
Colin Wiseley
Lyric Theatre
Blacksburg, VA
www.thelyric.com

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-18-2000 06:41 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dwayne:
I'm one of the "creators" of CAP code, and I did not work for the NSA. But some of the others on the team did have "government experience".

Brad:
CAP Code has been in use for over 18 years. It has definitely helped identify sources of pirated copies in numerous cases. With billions of dollars in revenue at stake, the MPAA is VERY agressive in prosecuting film piracy. CAP Code is real, and a powerful tool in their arsenal against film piracy.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-18-2000 01:42 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Congratulations John! But I'm assuming still that no one is willing to perform a demonstration, right?

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Jason Burroughs
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Allen, TX
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-18-2000 06:38 PM      Profile for Jason Burroughs   Email Jason Burroughs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd have to agree with Brad on this one. I think the CAP code is a threat, much like the threat of nuclear weapons. Neither one has to actually be use for them to have influcence over peoples actions. If a person that is going to pirate a movie thinks there is a way that they will get caught, it makes them think twice about it.

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Andy Davis
Film Handler

Posts: 49
From: Gainesville, FL
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-18-2000 08:01 PM      Profile for Andy Davis   Author's Homepage   Email Andy Davis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The CAP code phenomenon seems much like Reagan's "Star Wars" when he said the US had satellites that could destroy ICBM's with lasers. Skeptics disproved the plausability of such a system and no government official gave any explanation of how it could possibly work. So far, no evidence has been submitted on the forum to prove CAP exists. Unless, John P. would like to enlighten us...

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-18-2000 08:04 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I could get an offical OK from the 'powers that be" to record films to find if/where the CAP code is, I would. But, somehow I don't think anyone would say OK to that!

To have that theory work, you would have to make people aware of it and belive that it exists. But a quick search of Alta-Vista and Yahoo will only turn up one applicable hit, and that's another guy asking how it works (his posting was unanswered.) So if Jason is right, CAP codes are a pretty well-kept non-secret.

And Jason, I understand your point, but using nuclear bombs is probably not the best analogy. Even though most of us have never seen a live detonation, we all know they do exist.

As I said, talking to that guy pretty much convinced me.

I don't think it is based on some use of infra-red, because that would not reliably transfer to video.

The first I heard that "something" was being coded into prints was when I was running "SW:Empire." There's a scene where the good guys are trying to get onto the new death star using an "older" code. A full screen shot of the code charactors is shown. I heard that in different prints, those codes were different. I doubt that's how they do it today, but that was how Lucas did it then.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-18-2000 10:20 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
All I ask is for a demonstration...that's all. If "they" can prove it works, there is no need to explain "how" it works as far as I'm concerned.

I remember on Empire Strikes Back there was a couple of different audio versions. The scene that stuck in my mind was when Luke is looking around the swamp and talking to R2 when Yoda says "feel like what". At that instant there is a big note in the music as Luke turns around and Yoda covers his face. In some prints, this is the sequence:
Luke: "I feel like...."
Music hits big finishing note
Yoda covers his eyes
Luke: "Like we're being watched!"

In other prints, THIS was the sequence:
Luke: "I feel like...."
Music hits big finishing note
Yoda covers his eyes and lets out a yell "EEEEEEEEEEEE!"
Luke: "Like we're being watched!"

Still, how many different versions could've been made with tiny things like this? Certainly no more than a few and that would still result in hundreds of identical prints. Regardless, I always assumed it was some anti-piracy thing Lucas came up with. I've never seen this movie on video, so I'm not sure how any of the couple-dozen video releases are, but I do specifically remember different film prints differing in little things like that.

*SPOILERS AHEAD*

E.T. was another one. That ending sequence when E.T. is walking back to the ship to go home, there is no dialogue and I've seen different cuts of the last dozen shots. Different cuts meaning they were presented in a different "order", less the final shot of Elliot. What can I say, I notice these little discrepencies!

(I hope I didn't spoil this movie for anyone that didn't know E.T. makes it back to his ship.)

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Chris Erwin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 195
From: Olive Hill,KY
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-18-2000 10:36 PM      Profile for Chris Erwin   Email Chris Erwin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think that I might have started something in that other forum!!

My thoughts on the CAP code is that it more than likely does exist but is something so simple if it was described,it would give it away. John said it was around about 18 years so it aint that "sci-fi" or hi-tech. It has no doubt evolved since then,but the idea still the same.

But like satelite dish descramblers, macrovison (the video copy deterent) and other forms of protecion or encryption, if it exists, there will be someone,somewhere who's found a way to beat it.

--Chris

P.S. Happy 100th post to me. And I did it without padding my posts.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-19-2000 12:25 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I assume that the MPAA does not apply overseas? I hear that just about every movie can be had on MPEG videodisc from Hong Kong. They usually use a camcorder, but some are telecine. And they are all current movies. Usually within the week they are released here. So maybe they are not originating from Hong Kong. People with high bandwidth connections can (and do) download these movies from the net. The CAP code doesn't seem to be preventing this in any way at all.

I've never downloaded one because
A) MPEG video compression sucks
B) I am not a movie pirate
C) Only have a pissy little 56k modem
D) Who the hell would want a camcorder made presentation of a movie?????

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-19-2000 06:42 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
CAP Code was first discussed publicly in the July 24, 1981 issue of "The Wall Street Journal" in a technology article on "Industry Steps Up Its Battle Against Saavy Video Pirates". More detail was given in an article on the front page of the May 15, 1984 "Hollywood Reporter". An article in Time Magazine on June 6, 1983 notes that "Using this technique (marking prints with an indelible code so that copies can be easily traced), we caught a guy in 24 hours".

I can't discuss the details of how CAP code works, but distributors wouldn't be spending money to have CAP Code on prints for 18 years unless it was effective in finding film pirates. IT IS REAL --- hundreds of thousands of prints have been coded in the past 18 years.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-19-2000 11:48 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
...yet no one will prove it with a demonstration!

I still maintain this is a scare tactic to would be bootleggers and nothing more. In my opinion, lab splices would be more of a believeable method for tracking down a print. Although it would require a bit of work to search through however many prints, no two prints will have a lab splice in the same frame...kinda like a fingerprint.

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