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Topic: How Trailer scenes change in final cuts.

Rob Brooks
Film Handler

Posts: 57
From: NY, U.S.A.
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 03-02-2000 12:37 PM

Ever run a trailer for a long time so you can practically recite dialoge in your sleep. Then when the movie comes out there are changes in the scenes that were in the trailers you remember most. Sometimes it's the emphasis in the acting and not so much the words. In "Girl Interruped" Trailer Angeline Jolie calls another patient "gay". In the movie she uses the word "Dyke". Someone figured out that the word gay was not used for homosexuals in 1969. I'm sure more will come back to me if someone wants to start the ball rolling with differences you've noticed.

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Rob

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-02-2000 01:19 PM

That doesn't surprise me. Many times production on a trailer starts with some of the first footage shot, well before the post production of the feature is done. So the scenes and dialog that end up in the feature may be quite different than the trailers.

It's not unusual for the "final cut" negative to arrive at the lab a couple weeks before over 3000 prints need to be in theatres. The first and last reels are notoriously late, since the opening titles and end credits are often not decided until the last possible moment --- this is one factor that has held back 6000-foot Extended Length Reels (ELR). At least with 2000-foot reels, the lab can begin printing the middle reels, even if the titles and credits haven't been decided.

I just purchased a DVD of GWTW. The 1938 trailer included on the DVD did not have a single scene from the final movie --- it was a series of pre-production sketches in a "book" as the pages were turned.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Joshua Lott
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 246
From: Fairbanks, AK, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-02-2000 01:24 PM

The one scene from a trailer that sticks out in my mind is the water melon scene from Can't Hardly Wait. I know that there are many others, but can't think of any right now.

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Colin Wiseley
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Blacksburg, VA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-02-2000 02:27 PM

We ran the trailer for Cradle Will Rock for about a month and there's a part in it where a character says, "When the storm breaks..." (cut to another scene with different characters) "...the cradle will rock." In the actual movie the first character says, "When the storm breaks, the cradle will FALL." There's always a murmor from the audience when he says fall because they expected rock.

One trailer we ran forever that I can always remember lines from is PI:

12:45, restate my assumptions
This is insanity, Max! - Or what if it's genius?
There will be no order, only chaos.

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Colin Wiseley
Lyric Theatre
Blacksburg, VA www.thelyric.com

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 03-02-2000 04:04 PM

I have DVD and I simply cannot get past the HORRIBLE MPEG2 artifacts onscreen. MPEG2 is highly unprofessional. Nothing like seeing blocks of data in every hazy, smokey, or foggy scene. And I don't know if it is my player or what but every time I put a DVD in for the very first time, it wants to play with Spanish subtitles.

LaserDisc is better.

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Jim Bedford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 597
From: Telluride, CO, USA (733 mi. WNW of Rockwall, TX but it seems much, much longer)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-02-2000 05:43 PM

One of my faves is the BladeRunner trailer that has "If I Didn't Care" by the Ink Spots as incidental background music to set a bluesy film noir tone. But when it came to putting it in the feature, the copywrite owner said the cost was $40K so the producers put a Vangelis track in its place.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-03-2000 11:54 AM

Joe:
I agree, I'd much rather watch film on a big screen than a DVD on my 48-inch Sony projection set. Before the DVD, I only had VHS, so it is a step up for me. It's going to be interesting to see how many compression artifacts will be tolerated in the name of efficient transmission of digital cinema data. SMPTE has quite a few good people working on the committee, including some from Kodak. They have quite a challenge!

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-03-2000 12:52 PM

Joe:

You must have bought your Spanish language DVD on one of your many visits to to Tijuana.

Seriously, isn't there a setup menu to set the start-up preferences?

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Dan Riddle
unregistered
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-03-2000 02:11 PM

Joe,

What kind of DVD player do you have? A lot of the older cheaper versions of the players have crappy artifacts mostly in the scenes you talked about, rain, fog, dark greys, and any gradient. But the newer ones have gotten a lot better. I think it'll be awhile until film is beat, if ever. But, you have to admit DVD is a heck of a step up from VHS.

Dan

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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-03-2000 08:52 PM

Joe: DVDs are mastered in component 4:2:0 format, whereas LaserDisc is composite only. Also, DVDs are often anamorphically enhanced so that letterboxed material is displayed using much higher resolution (same concept as matted 1.85:1 versus the higher resolution of using the full four-perf area for scope). There is also the possibility of progressive scan output.

If you are using YUV or RGB (or even s-video) to connect your DVD player to a monitor or TV, then all the dot crawl artifacts of VHS and LaserDisc will be very noticably absent. If you are using a 16:9 display or 'squeezing' a 4:3 display for anamorphic DVDs then there is no contest with LaserDisc. Also, DVDs have far less video noise and virtually (my favourite!) NO chroma tearing. Gotta love those 'hot' colors on VHS and Laser!

Regarding compression artifacts - sure, compared to watching uncompressed D1 or even DigiBeta there is a difference. But considering the aggresive ratio of compression, DVD is quite miraculous. Some of the early discs did have some visible artifacts, but it's been a steep learning curve for authors/compressionists and by now, the vast majority of modern discs have virtually invisible compression artifacts.

Look at 'Blade' or 'Lost in Space' for two outstanding examples. Of course, they don't quite compare to their D1 masters, but outside of film prints, neither does anything else.

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Erika Hellgren
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 168
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-04-2000 05:57 PM

Michael,

I have found that all that compression gobbilty-gook means nothing to me. If I look at an image on a TV and I don't like it, that's what really matters in the end. I have never seen a DVD image that I liked. I've also been incredibly unimpressed with how DVD's handle dust or scratches. Dust can cause blockiness or a complete loss of image. Scratches can cause the DVD to stop playing completely. I'm also not a fan of having to set up a menu before I can watch a movie. I want to put in the disc, press play and watch. I also find that the "hot" colors you refer to depend on the TV you have. I honestly have seen the same LaserDisc look like shit on a bad TV, and astonishing on a good one.

But the main reason I hate DVD's is because they are taking over. Consumers should have a choice. Personally, for me, it's LaserDisc or nothing. (Film would be nice, but I have no space and no money )

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-04-2000 07:48 PM

Oh, come on, Erika! You need a 35mm setup in your living room!

Sure, DVD/laserdisc/tape is _easier_ and sure 35mm at home is like throwing cash and storage space into a big black hole, but it's so much more FUN!

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Erika Hellgren
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 168
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-04-2000 08:22 PM

Scott, my living room is also my bedroom, dining room and office. Yes, I live in a studio apartment. I could bring in a 35mm projector and lamphouse, but then where would I sleep? Perhaps I could get a platter system in here and sleep on the top deck

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Robb Johnston
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 147
From: St. Louis Suburbs
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-05-2000 03:04 AM

John, The first Time I saw "Dogma" was the digital projection presentaion at ShowEast. I was impressed with the quality. I did not notice any artifacts from the middle of the auditorium which had a sizable throw to a fairly large screen. The color was matched through the entire film (much better than the print I got at one of my theatres) and the only reason I would have known it was digital without previous knowledge was the lack of "Cigarette Burns" before the changeovers. There was a sound sync problem for "reel 2" though. It was decompressed at a slightly different rate than the picture so after 18 minutes the sound was off by nearly 3 quarters of a second. All was well when "reel 3" began.

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Robb Johnston
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 147
From: St. Louis Suburbs
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-05-2000 03:08 AM

Also changed in Can't Hardly Wait was William soing a shot. I forget which was the trailer and which was the film, but in one he jumps up repeating I can't feel my legs, and the other he only says it once then states that he has no legs.

Of course there also was the "Major League" quotes. The preview for the first one had the line to the effect of: That wouldn't be out some parks. Name one. Yellowstone.

It was cut from the film , then they made a point of using it in the sequel. Of course they again deleted a line from the trailer of that film, but . . .

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