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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Pitch Black is Cursed!!!! (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Pitch Black is Cursed!!!!
Joshua Waaland
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 800
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-27-2000 07:03 PM      Profile for Joshua Waaland   Email Joshua Waaland   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You Will Not Believe This!!! I was working the noon shift today at Cinemark Macedonia 15. I got a call on the walkie from an usher that there was no picture , but there was sound on Pitch Black.

We run Christie P35GPS Heads. I was checking out the problem and could see that something was blocking the light. I checked the douser to see if it dropped, but it was fine. So I stopped the film and opened up the back and saw that the shutter belt was broken because the shutter spun freely. The managers had to give about 50 passes out and we luckily had one last belt in the spare parts.

So we fixed it and timed it and ran the next showing of Pitch Black in the house next door while we checked it. The Beach wasn't selling well so we dropped it down to the third tier and let it sit.

So I went about tearing down "Talented Mr. Ripley" and I got a call again that the same thing happened to Pitch Black in that theater! So I went and checked on it and SURE ENOUGH the Damn Shutter Timing Belt broke on that one too! Both of them shredded.

The wierd part is that we were joking after the first one broke and the booth manager said I hope it doesn't happen again because we are out of belts. I said it probably will happen again todaywith our luck. Next time I will keep my mouth shut. Same movie, same place in the film, and same belt!


So we had to get another belt from our Valley View theater about twenty minutes away, which by the way is running a digicrap projector in one house. So to make a long story short we fixed it and saved the day.
The best part is I learned something new about projectors which I have never got to do before and I was really pumped. I love it! My girlfriend thinks I'm a freak because I get so excited about projection. I always tell her "That it justs gets in your blood".

So we talked the booth manager into getting some new belts so we could change them since the booth just reached a year old. Christie says to change them after a year and they weren't joking.

Joshua Waaland

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-27-2000 07:18 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So...umm...wait...the shutters in the Christie projectors are BELT-driven?!?!

Sorry for the ignorance...I'm just used to the Simplex/Century type of projector where there's a single vertical shaft that's driven by the soundhead and which is geared to a horizontal shaft to which the shutter is attached...

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David Koegel
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Alexandria, VA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-27-2000 07:35 PM      Profile for David Koegel   Email David Koegel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joshua, funny you should mention this. I saw Pitch Black the 19th of this month, Saturday night, at a fairly new Hoyts. My first time in one of them. I love the seats, love the huge screen, loved the sound, and the film was in perfect shape mostly (though I still wonder how come the footage at the changeover marks gets SO DIRTY. I mean, we are talking PLATTER here. Gets handled once!).

Anyhow, after all the trailers and around 10 minutes into the movie (just after the landing), the film abruptly stops and the lights came up to half, and the slide show started again. All at once. Fairly full house. About 10 or 15 minutes later, a hapless employee wandered in and someone yelled to him "what's going on". He mumbled something about starting it over again.

He wasn't kidding. 5 or 10 minutes later, they started all over again, including ALL the trailers and the sound logo. And I watched intensely at the point where the movie stopped. Nothing to indicate any sort of break. This has NEVER happened to me, at least outside my home

I'm just glad that it wasn't a break and that they'd start it up too far after a break point.

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Masao Garcia
Film Handler

Posts: 34
From: Lancaster, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 02-27-2000 08:23 PM      Profile for Masao Garcia   Email Masao Garcia   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The GPSes have belt driven shutters, yes. I hear they often break and are crappy. I think it's due to their small size.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 02-27-2000 10:16 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Several projectors have all, or almost all
belt drives. A Cinemeccanica V5, an Ernemann 15, to name a few.

But, I tend to think like an old-timer, and I want all steel gears..

I liked "Pitch Black" but it was filmed at very low light levels (on purpose) and a few customers have complained they can't see anything. We are a little low (13-14fL) but it's not too bad.

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Mike Beerbower
Film Handler

Posts: 12
From: Erie, PA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 02-28-2000 12:21 AM      Profile for Mike Beerbower   Email Mike Beerbower   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David, we have a term we use at Mercyhurst College for the dirt at the reel changes. We call it the "two-minute warning", because it's possible to call off the reel changes *before* the cue dots show up, just by looking at the amount of dirt on the film. I used to think it was just because we got a lot of crappy prints (we show lots of foreign and indie films), but I have since seen the two-minute warning in other places. I went to see Angela's Ashes at a Carmike theater in the Pittsburgh area, and the two-minute warning was quite obvious on only the second day of the run! When something like that happens, I believe it's just untrained and/or apathetic projectionists who don't care enough to keep the film off the floor. This theater was also running policy trailers that looked like they had been walked on (and that's really not much of an exaggeration).
Oy! The people they let into booths...

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-28-2000 02:21 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joshua:

You must have at least 5 spare shutter belts for every Christie projector you have

I have had this problem as well. But you can see it coming if you are careful. It can be noticed as a uniformly "stroby" type of defect to the image on screen, meaning that the notches in the belt are wearing. This strobing can be very light to very serious. Either way, change the belt when the projector gets out (if it makes it that far). Usually you will have a few days time when you notice this. Also, change belts at least once a year. And always change out all 3 of them (shutter, inner timing and outer timing) at the same time. And be sure to clean the gears and pulleys as well as you can.

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Stephen Jones 1
Film Handler

Posts: 62
From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 03-04-2000 05:18 AM      Profile for Stephen Jones 1   Author's Homepage   Email Stephen Jones 1   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have had better luck with my shutter belts. Our Cinemark Tinseltown just turned 2 years old and I've only changed 4 shutter belts since we've opened. 3 of these were advance so the customer never had to experience a break. After the last one broke during Bringing Out the Dead, I ordered one belt for each projector. The belt actually didn't break, but wore thin causing ghosting up and down the screen as the shutter would go in and out of timing so to speak. I now check every belt every Thursday for wear and tear. I have changed only one outer and inner belt.

BTW, I have noticed that some projectors run louder than others. I tried changing out belts to see if it was the age that was causing the loudness, but it still stays loud. It's not annoying to anyone but me, but I HEAR ALL... Any suggestions?

Stephen

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Christopher Duvall
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 500
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-04-2000 10:14 AM      Profile for Christopher Duvall   Email Christopher Duvall   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
**though I still wonder how come the footage at the changeover marks gets SO DIRTY. I mean, we are talking PLATTER here. Gets handled once!**

David, the problem you probably saw is that the operator did not use gloves when building up the print. Therefore the oils from the operator's hands got transfered to the film which in turn attracted the dirt at each showing. That is a problem I have been fight at the theatre I just took over in Maryland. My operators and managers do not know their A$$ from a hole in the ground when running the booth. It's a shame...

------------------
Chris Duvall
General Manager
Regal Cinemas
Rockville 13

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-04-2000 02:35 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One technique to help reduce "two minute warning" dirt is to try to keep the film from contacting the surface of the rewind table as you splice. No matter how careful you are, dirt, film chips, and dust accumulate on the surface of the table. If you can learn to handle the film by the edges only, I find gloves aren't necessary --- but use LINT FREE (not cotton) film handler's gloves if you can't keep your sweaty, dirty, and oil-stained fingers off the film surface .

Kodak's new Vision Color Print film has a conductive backing layer to minimize attraction of dust and dirt to the film by static electricity. It eliminates those annoying static shocks during rewinding too.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-04-2000 03:10 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
John, that conductive backing layer really does make all the difference in the world when hand inspecting a brand new print. Kudos to Kodak for that one!

I find the cause of the "2 minute warnings" on platters is generally due to a projector not being clean. Ever notice how the last reel change looks infinitely worse than the first reel change with respect to dirt buildup? The reason for this is as the print sheds during operation, the gate gets more and more dirty. As the splice is passed through the gate, it stirs up all of the dirt and it is then loose, to adhere itself to the film. This can last for a minute or so. The reason the tails of the reels get dirty right before a reel change is because that first revolution of film on an incoming reel winds itself against the last revolution of film on the previous reel, thus transferring the dirt. On the next show, that new round of film lays up against the next layer and so on and so on and so on. So the dirt ends up going in both directions, although typically worse at the head than tail.

This can be cured 100% with FilmGuard, but most people here already know that. The trick is to STOP THE SHEDDING and keep the projectors CLEAN. FilmGuard handles that all on it's own. In fact, there are a lot of theaters who don't even own a media cleaner and are simply wiping the top edge of the print with FilmGuard as it lays on the platter, running the next show taking up "upside down" from their normal procedure and then wiping the other side. This kills most of the static and most of the shedding right there. Many multiplexes simply do not have the time to clean out the projector head between every show, and some makes and models of projectors cause more shedding than others. But that bottom line remains, if the projector is clean and the print does not shed, that "2 minute warning" is a thing of the past.

As to gloves, I never use them. I agree with John that the trick is simply to not touch the image surface. It really isn't that hard once you force yourself to learn how to do it. (And with FilmGuard you can eat your fried chicken and wipe your hands all over the print anyway. )

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-04-2000 03:43 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Agreed to all comments about dust and dirt near reel changes. I've never worked with platters, but when I was running large reels, even after several weeks of showing the same title, there was NO visible dirt near the splices or the actual reel changes that wasn't there when I received the print. And this was true despite a rather less-than-pristine booth and less-than-competent co-workers.

Grr...another real pet peeve of mine is policy and sound format trailers that are scratched or otherwise damaged in any way. I had one set of flat and scope Dolby trailers that I ran with pretty much every show (except for a few mono-only titles) for six months, with films changing weekly. At the end of that time (when I stopped working at that theatre), there were no scratches on these trailers at all and just a tiny bit of dust at the extreme head and tail where splices had been peeled and re-made as features changed. If the major circuits can't afford to buy new policy trailers every six months, they have some really big problems (particularly if their operators can't make the trailers last for six months).

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-04-2000 03:48 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott, this has nothing to do with platters vs. large reels. You ran Century SAs and THAT is why you had no shedding problems. Large reels will accumulate just as much dirt as a platter when those splices go through. With platters, there is no rewinding so the film actually can stay cleaner.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-04-2000 04:20 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To be honest, I have never taken much care not to touch the image area of the film when I splice (and I don't use gloves). I don't go putting my fingers all over it, but I just didn't have the time to be super-careful, since ALL of our prints come in on Thursday. Anyway, before FilmGuard, prints that did not shed did not have the "two minute warning" or even a "half second warning". So I believe that Brad's theory is correct. I also have never noticed a fingerprint projected onscreen.

FilmGuard wipes away the fingerprints anyway.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-04-2000 04:48 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad - I agree. I'm not trying to make this into another "platters vs. reels" thread. Both have their purpose. I was just making the point that it's not too difficult to avoid visible dust. Yes, dust is an inevitable problem with 16mm, but it's much less visible onscreen with 35mm. And, yes, with reels, the film gets exposed to dust twice as often--once when it goes through the projector and once when it is being rewound. Yes, reels _should_ be stored in a proper fireproof cabinet between shows, but we didn't have one where I worked, so we just let them sit propped up against the projector bases.

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