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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » 'pop' at splices (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: 'pop' at splices
James Dunn
Film Handler

Posts: 23

Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 02-11-2000 12:47 PM      Profile for James Dunn   Email James Dunn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anyone have any tips on how to minimize the 'pop' sound at reel splices? I've noticed that most of the films we run are making this sound and it drives me nuts. Is it normal for me to be able to notice them? Or is it that I've just been in the theatre too much and every little imperfection jumps out at me when the ordinary movie goer doesn't even notice anything?

Any thoughts?

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-11-2000 12:59 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You're absolutely right--splices that "pop" are very annoying.

Check out Brad's splicer mods--the pop is caused by a slight gap at the splice when, in fact, there should be a slight overlap. Even if the splice looks perfect when it is new, splices tend to separate over time.

If you receive a splicy print and don't want to re-make every splice (understandable if they are otherwise good), then you need to apply little pieces of "blooping tape" or a spot of "blooping ink" (both available from theatre suppliers) over each splice.

If you have a reel-to-reel setup and the sound changeover "pops" at each reel change, you should check the wiring and relays and make sure that all of the connections are clean and tight.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 02-11-2000 01:07 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If it's a digital soundtrack, there shouldn't be any poping; if yours does, there might be a problem somewhere.

If it's the regular analog optical soundtrack, you might try:

Adjusting your splicer such that the two ends of the film fit closer together before taping. Also, that the splicer is cutting the film evenly and cleanly across. On the main "Film-Tech," page there is a nice article on tweaking your splicer, which might help you.

If the "pop" only happens after the film has been run for awhile, perhaps the "sticky" on the tape is not holding the film together, and the two ends are slowly parting. Try a different tape manufacturer. I like the Nuemade, but I'm sure there are other good ones.

Ask your equipment dealer for "blooping ink;" a very dark ink you can apply right at the splice line to block light. There are probably pens or inks you could just buy at Staples that will do the same thing, but you'd have to experiment with different makes.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-11-2000 01:13 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For analog sound, with older "white light" (tungsten bulb) soundheads, the blooping ink/tape must be opaque to infrared energy. You can test this by covering a length of the analog soundtrack on an old trailer with the blooping material, and make sure little or no sound comes through.

With newer "red light" LED soundheads, the blooping ink/tape need only be opaque to red light. You can test it in the same way.

Properly "blooping" analog soundtrack splices seems to be a lost art.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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James Dunn
Film Handler

Posts: 23

Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 02-11-2000 01:52 PM      Profile for James Dunn   Email James Dunn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the tips. I'd read the 'Splicing Tips' page before, but went back and re-read it just to make sure I hadn't missed anything. Another question came up. The last picture show the splicing tape slightly off-centered to help durability. This sounds good, but what do you suggest when it's at a reel change that you're using zebra tape on?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-11-2000 02:17 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Personally, I don't care for xebra tape. CPI puts out an edge marking tape that will not disturb the SDDS track and you might want to check with them on getting a roll so you can then use only clear tape.

If you need to use the xebra though, just pull it 1/2 down so there is not a line going down the joint and the markings are only over the SDDS track/sprockets. In other words, discard the parts where there is a straight line going across the film.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-11-2000 03:23 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad does that mean SDDS means SONY DOESN'T DO SPLICES

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-11-2000 05:22 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
About noisy sound...

Anybody else have black mylar that "motorboats" as it goes through? We ordered a whole huge roll of black mylar and got this junk. My mgr. won't order anymore 'cuz we "already spent too much" on mylar.

It seems that the black stripe on the soundtrack has little semi-transparent spots where the frame lines go all the way across the film. I've tried using all kind of ink to blot them out but I just make it sound worse.

The stuff looks real nice but it sounds like hell. I've not been using it until the old stuff becomes 100% unuseable. Now, I have to start using it. All the 'good' mylar is just about worn out!

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 02-11-2000 08:03 PM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My splicer has no cutter blade. I use a good pair of scissors to cut the film so that there will be a very slight overlap when the pieces are put together.

When I remake existing splices that are pulling apart, or, sticky, I peel and clean everything, splice one side, then apply a tiny piece of soundtrack blooping tape to the soundtrack area on the other side before applying the splicing tape.

I find that this helps to quiet "pops" in the print, especially in quiet parts, and saves a frame. I always cut the ends of the bloop tape at a 45 degree angle to minimize the noise.

I know this takes alot of time, but I am doing preservation here.

These "blooped" splices pass thru my Holmes with no more movement than regular tape splices do.

They seem to play well in a real theater here in town where I run prints occasionally. Old rebuilt Century CC's with Christie lamphouses.

Is there anything I should know when it comes to which side I should bloop...Base or Emulsion? I've done it both ways and notice no difference in the image movement.

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Mike Bianchi
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Independence, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-11-2000 11:08 PM      Profile for Mike Bianchi   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Bianchi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My favorite quote in a movie - particularly if it is boring or bad - heard every 20 minutes or so...

"Cue mark... cue mark... flash... POP!"

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Robb Johnston
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 147
From: St. Louis Suburbs
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 02-12-2000 01:26 AM      Profile for Robb Johnston   Author's Homepage   Email Robb Johnston   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bruce, The black mylar that I have ordered in the past does nots not have frame lines across the entire width of the film. The blank area equates with the analogue soundtrack. The only time I have heard your motorboat effect was when it was attached backwards so the frame lines passed through the light beam.

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 02-12-2000 09:43 AM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That was Randy with the motorboating problem. I was thinking the same thing, though.

One feature I got (in IB) had "zillions" of well-made, but old splices. Splices that came during music, or talking did not get the bloop treatment. Only the ones in the quieter parts got blooped. It sounds alot better now.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-14-2000 02:41 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy,

It sounds like you have the Xetron leader. They make fantastic clear with black frame line leader that is the best on the market in my opinion, but their "black" mylar is crap (also my opinion). Every so many frames there is a very large clear space in the soundtrack. I have a feeling this is what you are referring to, as Cinemark has traditionally always purchased their leaders from Xetron.

The BB-100 from NT Audio Visual isn't quite as durable as the Xetron, but it's quiet. for the utmost in perfect black leader, check out Neumade's "Fiesta" leader. It has no emulsion and cannot be scratched. It is also as dark as the douser and as quiet as hitting the MUTE on your Dolby. The only problem with it is there are no frame line markings, so you must use your counter. I think the Fiesta leader runs around $75/1000 foot roll.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-15-2000 04:13 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I checked the leader out. It is Xetron. (Sucktron).

No, it isn't being threaded backwards. That's the first thing I checked when I heard the motorbotaing. It took me a couple of days to figure out what the hell was going on.

If you look at it under 'casual' conditions it looks normal. It's only when you look closer and shine some light through it that you notice. The frame lines go from edge to edge. It's just that they're very faint in the analog soundtrack area. It almost looks like a black stripe was painted down the film to make a soundtrack.

I've tried all sorts of things to make it work right. I tried black, red, green and blue magic markers. I've tried India ink and I've tried film-spotting dye. Problem is that often you make it worse. I think you're actually making the frame lines darker. (The film itself is not actually opaque.) The only thing that even partially worked is the spotting dye. That quiets the problem by about 90% and it's sooooooo labor intensive! Finally, I just said F*** it! I'll keep using the old stuff until it's dead. (I used to change mylar quite often. Now I almost never do it.) I guess I'm just going to have to live with this crappy leader until it's time to change it too. At that time I'll just specify that we have to have Neumade "Fiesta". (If somebody doesn't know how to use a frame counter, that's too damn bad.)

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Nic Margherio
Film Handler

Posts: 91
From: St. Louis MO, USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-15-2000 05:30 PM      Profile for Nic Margherio   Email Nic Margherio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy, I don't know how much black leader you need, but I always save the 15 feet or so of black space at the beginning of Warner Brothers' films. It doesn't have frame lines, but it usually looks very good and also has an SRD and SDDS track of "digital silence." It works very nicely for me if I ever need to insert some space between previews or something.

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