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Author Topic: Digital Projectors
Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 02-05-2000 05:29 PM      Profile for Ben Wales   Email Ben Wales   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Odeon Liecester Square Cinema in London has just opened up this week with "Toy Story2" using the Texas DLP Digital projector with a Christe 4kw Xenon console.

There has been quite a debate over here in the UK as a lot of comments made say it looks better than film!, but as this was shot in Digital format any way may well look better, but the real test is transfer from film, that issue I am not sure so far.

Can you belive one person on a chat room on the web stated Digital Cinema looks better than a 70mm!, and film is now dead.

What's the general feeling out there about eletronic Cinema?, do we now dump those out of date film projectors for a state of Digital projectors which will be them self's out of date within five years or less as there is bound to one improved model made
at a lower price tag!.

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-05-2000 06:37 PM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Digital projectors made by TI are very good. They are not as good as film, however. There is still a fixed resolution (1280x1024) on the chip. They still require good focus on the Xenon lamp. Toy Story 2 and Star Wars the Phantom Menace were the two perfect films to try out Digital Cinema with because they both came out of computers. The digital Cinema will never look as good as film can look on films with superb cinematography. I can think of a few films that make film look good. Lawrence of Arabia, The Straight Story, A River Runs Through It, and A League of Their Own looked very good on film and I think Digital Cinema would be hard pressed to look as good.

It is said that film has a horizontal resolution that is analogous to 6,000 lines. Digital Cinema is up to 1280 lines of resolution. So film has four times more resolution than video. Remember that 70mm had four times more resolution than 35mm and we don’t have 70mm anymore. Digital Cinemas is being driven by the cost of film shipping and handling.

The theatre owners aren’t going to foot the bill to convert to Digital. The costs are still much higher than film. Look, the industry still hasn’t switched to reverse-scan sound heads yet and the companies are going to reduced silver film. It is the studios and distributors that are driving the digital cinema thing down the road. If they would put that much effort into maintenance and training, then there would be no big push to go digital. I have $130,000 tied up in film handling systems in my theatre. That money came out of my pocket, and I am not in a hurry to invest another $425,000 so that we can save a little money of film shipping. I would much rather spend another $100,000 in new sound equipment.

Digital Cinema is coming, slower than you think. Film will not die as an art form in my lifetime.

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David Koegel
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Alexandria, VA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-05-2000 06:42 PM      Profile for David Koegel   Email David Koegel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Film will not die as an art form in my lifetime."
----------------------------------------
Ian: For your sake, for my sake, and for the sake of all of the other film collectors, I wish you a very long life indeed! Your reply was well put. -- David

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Martin Frandsen
Master Film Handler

Posts: 270
From: Denmark, Europe
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-05-2000 06:50 PM      Profile for Martin Frandsen   Email Martin Frandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm looking forward to see the digitalprojector in action in my area (europe) of cause it can not beat film NEVER just look at the technical spec. it tells it all.

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-05-2000 11:14 PM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't get me wrong, I do like my toys. I have been involved with Digital Projection for the past 4 years. It is great fun to see those realy great television images. I have run shows at film festivals with great success.

Remember; It is not the technology behind the story that matters, it is the story that matters.

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Serge Bosschaerts
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Schoten, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-06-2000 03:23 AM      Profile for Serge Bosschaerts   Author's Homepage   Email Serge Bosschaerts   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On the news in Belgium was this :
Barco (one of the leading companies in the field of video projectors)has announced it will work together with Texas Instruments on their DLP system and they expect to sell 7.000 units a year and expect a world wide market of 70.000.000 $.
Also for Toy Story 2, one DLP with Christie lamphouse has been installed in Brussels and local filmcritics are already talking about the end of pelicule ... a little premature I think !
Also, not a single word was mentioned on the price of the system ...

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-06-2000 02:17 PM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barco is teaming up with TI because at the NATO demo last year they showed that they know nothing about Electronic Cinema. Barco used to be the biggest Large Fromat video display company in the world. Digital Projection has been kicking Barco's butt for the past year or more. Why did Digital Projection do so well? They teamed up with TI early.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 02-08-2000 10:33 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's on it's way (there's sure as heck been talk of wanting to go filmless for 30 years or more that I'm aware of), but I don't think it will be in any of our professional lifetimes. Increasing use will likely be seen, and I'm sure new 12's or 16-plexes will begin installing one or two DLPs per location.

As it's slowly perfected (that's another subject thread in itself), the price will come down, prompting more installs, the price drops further, etc., etc.

The long and the short of it is, in my estimation, NONE of us have anything to worry about for at least 10 years or more. After that, I'll be thinking about retirement anyway! Maybe a ranch out Arizona or New Mexico way...

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-09-2000 01:16 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I really want to see for myself what a digital movie looks like. I really don't have high hopes. Any kind of video pales by comparison to film.

I said once before, I used to sell TVs for a living. I know from experience that people don't have the ability to discern the 'details' or 'differences' between pictures.
(Okay, I generalize, but I think you get the point.)

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Charles Lubner
Film Handler

Posts: 78
From: Milwaukee, WI USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 02-15-2000 12:35 AM      Profile for Charles Lubner   Author's Homepage   Email Charles Lubner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just finished reading the current issue of Film Journal Magazine. I ran across a picture of a digital projector (forgot page #). Anyways, the picture was bitmapped and looked very grainy...obviously a digitally scanned photo of the projector. The next page over was an ad for a brand new Christie, with a beautiful rich color picture of the projector. If the photos in the magazines look bad, makes you wonder how the actual image would be on screen.......

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-16-2000 01:30 PM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is a link that will show you different pictures of the pieces that go into the projector, etc.
http://www.ti.com/dlp/resources/library/dlpcinema.shtml

Paul

Have not heard anything about Fantasia in DLP, wait to see if they actually come through with Mission to Mars.

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 04-14-2000 11:28 AM      Profile for Greg Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Somewhere, I can't remember exactly when, I thought I read where someone on this forum complained that the digital projection technology had a lower picture quality than HDTV. I assume they were talking about the 1028 lines of horizontal resolution vs. HDTV's 1080 lines. But isn't digital cinema a progressive scan picture whereas HDTV has an inferior, interlaced picture? I've read that 720p is actually a higher quality picture than 1080i.

In any case, I'm still waiting for a chance to see digital cinema for myself. Unfortunately (or maybe not) nobody's doing it within hundreds of miles from where I live.

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-14-2000 12:01 PM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At the risc of offending the Film Heads, Digital Cinema is very impressive. It's impressive for video that is.

The chip resolution for the current generation of digital projectors is 1280 X 1024. This is 4x3.

The proper resolution for HDTV is 1920 X 1080. This is 16x9.

So you can see that the current chip is not only a little short, but also the wrong shape. The current chips are still being made to support the computer industry. Nobody has made a "film" chip yet.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-14-2000 01:31 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
IMHO, using an anamorphic lens with the discrete pixels of the DLP chip seems to accentuate the visibility of the pixels. When I sat closer than about 2 screen heights (40 feet from a 20-foot high screen), I could see the pixel structure and "jaggies" on edges like subtitles and credits. AFAIK, the demos so far have used the 1280 X 1024 DLP Cinema chip with either a 1.5X (1.85:1) or a 1.9X (2.39:1) anamorphic lens.

Many who saw the ShoWest demos (including the press) felt that the flesh reproduction, tone scale and color reproduction were not as good as film, especially in critical scenes like those in "Snow Falling on Cedars" and "American Beauty". Digital material like "Toy Story 2" did look better on the digital projector.

I'm sure further improvements are on the way. But the supposed savings still aren't there. Assuming that a typical brand new 35mm print costs about $1200, showing that print for only two months would only cost four dollars per show. (2 months X 30 days X 5 shows per day = 300 shows in two months). It's tough to imagine amortizing the cost of the sophisticated equipment required for digital cinema at a cost anywhere near only $4 per show. And mastering, encoding, encryption, and distribution of digital cinema by satellite or fiber optic or DVD isn't free.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Rob Brooks
Film Handler

Posts: 57
From: NY, U.S.A.
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-18-2000 08:28 PM      Profile for Rob Brooks   Email Rob Brooks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
AMC has a new 25 screen theater openning this Friday April 21 in Times Square, NYC. Two of the theaters I've heard will be equipped with Digital Projectors from the onset. It will be interesting to see how much they use them and how it goes.

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