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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Has anyone actually HEARD an HPS-4000 theater? (Page 0)

 
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Author Topic: Has anyone actually HEARD an HPS-4000 theater?
Scott Nelson
Film Handler

Posts: 11

Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 02-13-2000 04:35 PM      Profile for Scott Nelson   Email Scott Nelson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am confused. Who then calibrated this house when I saw Titanic? Did Mr.Allen return and fix it for this?

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Jason Burroughs
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Allen, TX
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-13-2000 04:37 PM      Profile for Jason Burroughs   Email Jason Burroughs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mr Allen:
Annother question I failed to ask in my previous post...

If you accredit the poor sound quality at Northpark to operators tampering with your settings, how is it these same operators never had any sound problem in the THX house. That auditorium always sounded GREAT.

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John F. Allen
Film Handler

Posts: 54
From: Newton, MA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 02-13-2000 05:12 PM      Profile for John F. Allen   Email John F. Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dear Mr. Burroughs and Mr. Nelson:

I just got of the telephone with the former GC executive that I dealt with when we did this theatre. He confirms that the system was tampered with almost as soon as I left on both occasions.

John F. Allen

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Scott Nelson
Film Handler

Posts: 11

Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 02-13-2000 05:31 PM      Profile for Scott Nelson   Email Scott Nelson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I find it interesting how Mr.Allen refuses to admit to any negative directed comments and how he dodges specific questions such as the last three.

Mr.Allen, if you have such little time as you stated in a post above, then why is it your responses are so quick to the forum? Also, why are there not more of your systems installed? And why are you disturbing a GC executive on a Sunday afternoon for something like this that could easily wait until operating hours tomorrow?

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John F. Allen
Film Handler

Posts: 54
From: Newton, MA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 02-13-2000 06:01 PM      Profile for John F. Allen   Email John F. Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dear Mr. Nelson:

I am afraid that I cannot help you. I prefer not to get into personalities, personal attacks or directing blame about this theatre that has now closed. I am sorry if that displeases you.

My computer is next to me when I am working. It's been time consuming but kind of fun to answer all the good questions that people have asked. I hope my answers have been helpful as well as prompt.

I called my friend to confirm my memory so that I would not misinform anyone. We speak regularly. I believe I pointed out that he is no longer with the company. Not to put too fine a point on this, but we discussed politics as much as we did the theatre.

I am sorry that you were not happy with the system you heard five years ago. I believe everything you and Brad have said. It should be obvious by now that I was not responsible for the sound you heard.

John F. Allen

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-13-2000 06:02 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What I still don't understand If it sounded so great why would they have asked anyone to tamper with it?
That is self defeating unless you are of the belief that there is a conspiracy against your system
Also I find it very odd that to date we still don't actually have any costing for a typical HPS4000 system. Most THX costs are of record on this forum.
I also still find it hard to understand that if there were only 300 hps systems why so few remain intact on your preffered list.
If they all preformed so well and required little in the way of maintance as you claimed in your earlier post then I would think any theatre owner would be more than happy to leave them alone. And also maintain the HPS4000 status since it is claimed to mean so much to its following.
Maybe it would be advantageous for you to post a list (since there are not that many 300) of the installations and there status now

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John F. Allen
Film Handler

Posts: 54
From: Newton, MA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 02-13-2000 06:11 PM      Profile for John F. Allen   Email John F. Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dear Gordon:

I believe that I answered the question of cost when Brad asked it. Please look above. I also have explained that when circuits get sold, the new owners sometimes have different priorities from the previous owners. Some units have been closed or sold again. Since the equipment is their property, they are free to do what they want with it. When a system is no longer an HPS-4000® system, I simply remove it from the list.

JFA

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Scott Nelson
Film Handler

Posts: 11

Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 02-13-2000 06:41 PM      Profile for Scott Nelson   Email Scott Nelson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mr.Allen, again you are not answering the questions put forth. I said I liked your system when I saw Titanic. You are replying to me as if I was complaining.

So if the system is as wonderful as you keep speaking, why is THX the reference people look to in the industry today? Why isn't the HPS4000 system the standard? And where is this list?

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John F. Allen
Film Handler

Posts: 54
From: Newton, MA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 02-13-2000 07:07 PM      Profile for John F. Allen   Email John F. Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dear Mr. Nelson:

Indeed, if the system is what everyone says it is, why is not installed in all the theatres in the world? I would like to know that myself!

The current list is posted on the HPS-4000® web site: http://www.hps4000.com

JFA

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-13-2000 07:51 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gentlemen:

This once interesting thread has now turned into a bickering contest of who did what and such.

My take on the HPS-4000¨ system is not only the equipment used but it's installation (ie the surround placement) and it's method of tuning, which, can be any damn way Mr. Allen pleases (it is HIS copyrighted name).

Whether or not anyone, including myself, like's his results is strictly a matter of opinion as are ALL sound reproduction issues.

For him to write off ANY changes to using his copyrighted name is perfectly acceptable since the copyright holder has lost control of the system...the same way THX could pull certification if a non-THX certified tech tampered with their copyrighted system.

For Mr. Allen to say his system was "ruined" by others is also acceptable since he obviously was satisfied with the results he left (or he would otherwise be diluting the HPS-4000¨ name). This not to say it has in fact been ruined to others, including the public at large.

To say Mr. Allen or others can tune one of his designed better or worse is strictly a matter of opinion.

I have personally heard on of Mr. Allen's HPS-4000¨ system right after he tuned it (he was still in the theatre so I don't suspect tampering) and it did have a "big" sound. I personally like the horn sound. I do not agree with his tuning methods nor do I think he gets the best performance out of his speakers but those are my opinions. I also find his surround speakers are place so high as to be distracting (ALSO my opinion). I just tuned one of his Allen Surround Sound systems (never an HPS-4000¨) and found 1/3 octave EQ allowed me to get a very even and flat response in all four quadrents (Surround-EX theatre) such that they were rather pleasing to me (once again my opinion).

As to Mr. Allen's other comments of system integrety and reliability, a reader on this thread can find their own answers just by paying attention.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-13-2000 08:49 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
VERY well put, Steve.

It WAS interesting to read once, but no longer ( and besides, it takes so damn long to load).

It would be nice also, if some contributors to this thread added SOME info to the 'who?' link so we can get some idea of their credentials or what it is exactly they do.

Please, no more personal attacks.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-13-2000 08:54 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah ha! I am the originator of this thread and now I have the coveted 100th post!

So I have a hypothetical question:

If a movie were mixed in an HPS-4000® studio or sound stage, how would it sound played back in a THX auditorium?

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-13-2000 10:17 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think steve is right and maybe the originator show close this topic
In all fairness John has awnsered some of the questions and in many ways created more questions
My personal experience would not allow me to recomend to a customer an HPS4000 system though as steve knows I do like horn loaded cabinets
That said I have found that Mr Allen's views as he has expressed them in his articles in some ways have been detrimental to the sound industry. Recently I had a customer demand that his theatre be tuned in the near field method because of one of Mr Allen's articles. His system nor his room would have benifited by it. I stand behind the methods that I and many others in this industry use to tune rooms. I have a serious problem when a person who claims to only have 300 systems installed but has only a dozen or more that he claims maintained to his standards preaches in a fashion that it is the only solution to good cinema sound. I find it hard to fathom why if so great not all are still maintained.
Myself and many others have complained to Boxoffice about the nature and selfserving nature of some of these articles and in fact a rebuttal was published by two of the industry leaders Mr Ioan Allen and Mr Thomoson Hollamn rebutting your views. Both of which I believe you must credit with far more credit for the evolving of quality cinema sound.
Techniques are a matter of professional differences and should be respected as souch but the cavet should always be included that they are solely ones own views not the gosple of fact
I do not intend this to offend so with proffesional regards I wish you sucess on future endevours
GAM


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Scott Nelson
Film Handler

Posts: 11

Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 02-13-2000 10:57 PM      Profile for Scott Nelson   Email Scott Nelson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mr.Allen, your web page is scrambled and your installation list is not viewable.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-13-2000 10:58 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Let's please put a "pause" on this discussion. Many good points have been made here and much valuable information has been exchanged, but as the last part of this discussion has turned into a rant between who is capable of calibrating good sound and who is not, I feel a need to exercise my duty as moderator to put an end to this.

This entire thing is getting a bit ludicrous, as although it is not the same thing, is in my opinion just as crazy as if our changeover master friend Steve Guttag was to come onto the forum and tell everyone that he and only people he has trained were qualified to do a proper changeover. Sound is completely subjective and even a theater that I believed to sound the best in the world might not be agreed with by many others on this forum...just as even the reference Framingham HPS4000 theater might not sound good to myself or many others. I truly believe there is no right or wrong answer here.

So, out of respect for all of the qualified non-HPS trained (with due respect to all of the HPS trained) sound techs out there, any message during the next 30 days regarding "HPS4000" or sound questions that are aimed at Mr. Allen's specific techniques will be deleted so as not to offend any more people before everyone can cool off from the comments made on this thread. I apologize in advance to everyone on the forum as well as Mr. Allen for necessitating the temporary ban of this topic, but the private emails I have received today from sound techs who are greatly offended by Mr. Allen's comments regarding unqualified sound techs warrant it.

THREAD CLOSED

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