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Author Topic: QSC
Devriendt Miguel
Film Handler

Posts: 14
From: Belgium
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 01-22-2000 06:39 AM      Profile for Devriendt Miguel   Email Devriendt Miguel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is there anyone working with the qsc amps who can have 5 speakers parallel?(ideal for surround speakers)
Are they good?

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 01-22-2000 09:36 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It depends on the impedance of the amp output and the impedence of the speakers. They have to match, or the amp can be damaged. However, usually you do not have an odd number of speakers. Also, usually, you do not wire more than 2 speakers in parallel. Usually, it is a sort of combination of wiring them in both series/parallel. Which means you can not just run one pair of wires around the auditourium, and hook speakers to it. I say usually a lot beacuse there are different amps, speakers, and wiring methods.

If you tell us what the impedance of the amp output is (look in the amp book; it can probably operate at several) and the impedance of the speakers, we will tell you how to hook it up. But, be prepared to either drop, or buy one speaker. Also, try to use thick wire, like 14 ga romex, which is approved in most buliding codes.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 01-22-2000 09:38 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm sorry: I didn't answer your real question! Yes, QSC's are very good. They are almost the 'standard' for theaters now. What model do you have?

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Devriendt Miguel
Film Handler

Posts: 14
From: Belgium
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 01-22-2000 09:53 AM      Profile for Devriendt Miguel   Email Devriendt Miguel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We still have to buy them, but what i ment was that there is a serie where you can put 5 times a 8 ohm speaker in parallel, which is exact the case what the speakers are wired right now,
and what you said about the not more than placing two speakers parallel, isn't true because everyone (JBL, EAW...
is recommending that you should place your surrounds parallel, because you then achieve the best result.
Oh and tx for the reply

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-22-2000 12:34 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone still run 70v systems for surrounds? That's the way that a lot of the original 1950s CinemaScope installations were set up; many of them still use the same system.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 01-22-2000 12:34 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I looked in the instruction manual for the QSC models USA 400, USA 900, USA 1310. The specifications on amplifier output are only defined down to two ohms. I would assume that since there are no spec's below two ohms, it's not recommended.

Five 8 ohm speakers in parallel comes out to 1.6 ohm. That already below the minimun. Since impedance is usually defined at 1kHz, in actual operation, it could get much lower.

This is taken from the instruction manual for the QSC models USA 370, USA 850, USA 1300:

"The USA series amplifier has adequate current capaiblity to fully drive loads down to two ohms. However, many high performance 8-ohms loudspeakers, especially multi-way systems with passive crossovers, have impedances at some frequencies which are far lower than the average rating. (snip) For this reason, impedance curves should be consulted before connecting speakers in parallel. (snip) Two ohm loads should be approached with caution, as there is no further margin for impedance dips. (snip) For these reasons, operation with two ohms loads should be tested throughly before being put into use."

I'm assuming that for this application, where it says, "two ohms," it means at two ohms or less.

I don't have a JBL or EAW manual, (who is EAW?) but I encourage you to check this out before actually turning everything on. 5 8 ohm speakers in parallel seems to not be recommended by QSC.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 01-22-2000 12:51 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No one uses 70v systems anymore. Modern amplifiers can handle lower impedances, so it's no longer needed.

70v systems (actually it was 70.7v; sound familar!?) were originally meant for large area speaker distribution. The voltage was stepped up so you could buy thinner (cheaper) wire; nice if you are wiring, say, a large stadium. All speakers connected to that line, and transformers did the voltage reduction and impedance matching. You could buy different 70v transformers to increase or decrease the volume in different areas. Suppose there was a small corner of a stadium where you didn't want the sound to be too loud. You connected a different 70v transformer to the same 70v line and it was reduced.

Transformers are much to expensive today, and luckly modern amps allow a fairly wide range.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-22-2000 07:41 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Okey Dokey...

The only QSC cinema amp that is rated to 1.6 Ohms ( at the momenet) is the DCA1222. In fact, it was designed with just that in mind so connect up!

A series/parallel connection is really to be avoided if possible...the series connection will muddy up the bass a bit. As a fun experiment at home...try putting a power resistor in-line with your speakers and hear what happens to the bass. Some people even like the effect.

The USA line of amps (and the remaining series 1 amp, the 1400, which is the USA 850/900 with a different input module) really should be targeted for 4-8 Ohms. At 2-ohms they will tend to breath rather hot out of the front of the amp.

The MX line (my favorite) is just fine down to 2-ohms as are the rest of 2-channel DCA amps.

The new 4-channel DCA amps offer other options (besides the obvious Surround-EX implications) in that one can break the surround array up to avoid impedance problems without going to a series connection. Also, one can have front and rear zones to better balance the level of the surrounds with the stage channels as one moves back in the auditorium.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 01-26-2000 09:52 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First, my apologies to Devriendt. I didn't notice he said that there already was a QSC amp that would take 5 parallel speakers. An app note of the amp and it's use is at:
http://www.qscaudio.com/pdfs/cnmappnt.pdf

And thanks to Steve for bumping the topic (and me!) in the right direction.

Although the QSC page is a little confusing: the DCA 1222 amp's spec page says down to 2 ohms, but the app note says it can go to 1.6 ohm.

Ya gotta admit, 1.6 ohm is a little unusual!

Also, if I remember correctly, impedance won't always split correctly with speakers wired in series. The slightly different mechanical characteristics of each speaker effect it while in use.

I think, anyway (trying not to eat too much shoe-leather!)

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