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Topic: Walking the competition's auditoriums

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 12-04-1999 04:15 PM

How many people here do this? I know I cannot resist sneaking into the backs of other theater's auditoriums whenever I visit to check out the competition's presentation. Friends of mine agree, but everyone seems to get different responses to it. What about everyone here? Personally, when I go snooping I find myself

Let's face it, over 90% of theaters put on a lousy show. If the projectionist is around and seems to care but doesn't know what he is doing, I'll always try to offer suggestions and help. What about everyone else?

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-04-1999 04:19 PM

When there was more than one theatre in my town, the 'guys' in my booth used to go on "theatre checks" of other places in town, them write a little report on them and stick them in our log book. We used to have a good time making fun of the other places.

Now, Cinemark is the only bear in the woods, except for one independant house and Mercyhurst.

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Masao Garcia
Film Handler

Posts: 34
From: Lancaster, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 12-04-1999 04:29 PM

Although Cinemark owns our whole valley, I like to go to the somewhat new 22-plex that opened in May and see how quickly they can destroy their prints. They are currently the only stadium seating theatre in our valley, so everyone flocks to the 22 like it's something so special; when their presentation is really lacking. I had asked a random customer at the 22 how they liked their presentation and they said, "it was good, but there were a lot of green lines on the screen." This just proves how ignorant the common movie goer is. How unfortunate.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-04-1999 06:15 PM

SMPTE used to have a theatre evaluation form that people used to fill out when visiting as theatre
Odeon in Toronto used to have a box in the lobby for SMPTE members to drop it in and it was locked so that enginbeering only got them not the theatre staff

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George Roher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 266
From: Washington DC
Registered: Jul 99

posted 12-04-1999 10:58 PM

I think sneaking a peak at the competition's presentation is a good idea. I don't do it very much myself, because I would have to purchase a ticket at most places. And I would agree that 90% of theatres do put on a lousy show. This even includes many theatres that have decent projectionists, but have a bad show because the owners won't shell out the money they need to correct their problems.

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Chris Erwin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 195
From: Olive Hill,KY
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 12-05-1999 02:13 PM

I love playing spy. I see what others are doing wrong/right, so I can not/do do it at our theater. Worst case...a Sony 3 Plex,when I started to go in the manager told me the film would break twice and not to be alarmed. Sure enough, it did. Problem: out of frame splice that made the projector lose it's loops. Couldn't they catch that during the first play? This was a Saturday, and the film played mat/eve shows Friday.

Again,shame the public likes fancy lobbies and crap presentations.

--Chris

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 12-05-1999 09:01 PM

Anyone got any tricks to evaulate a competitor's auditoriums? Like counting ceiling tiles to determine screen width or throw; Or memorizing a scene in a feature or trailer, then looking at that same scene at your theater to see if there's any cropping. Listening to splices go by, and using that to help tell you what kind of sound system they have.

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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 12-05-1999 09:06 PM

One of the easiest tricks is to just clap your hands and listen for an echo.

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Wallace Logan
Film Handler

Posts: 26
From: Ottawa Ontario Canada
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 12-06-1999 07:03 AM

Brads wright I have Famous Players and AMC
in my town I work for Cineplex. With over
64 screens 10% are still in good shape
after there opening weekend but I find any
questions asked of me are what has caused
the yellow line ddown the middle of the screen.

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Erich Loepke
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Ft. Worth, TX, USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 12-06-1999 02:03 PM

I went to the local 8-plex last night to see "The World Is Not Enough". The film was in really good shape, but had a horrible side-to-side shake that I've never seen a film do before. Come on, my Kodak Pageant would have done a better job! It looked as if the film was fluttering back and forth at a rate much faster than 24 frames per second. It looked like VHS tape on a TV. It's unfortunate that this problem was so noticeable as everything else was really good. The sound was not too harsh like I've heard elsewhere, and the film was clean with splices that weren't even noticeable. They're supposed to be running the Phantom Menace re-release there, it'll be interesting to see how many lines are on that film after it has been to AMC, Regal, et. al.

I kept wondering what TI DLP "pixelvision" would look like with all those little squares all over the screen. Hardly anything I'd pay $7.50 to see!!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 12-06-1999 04:19 PM

Erich,

Was the shake random and r e a l l y violent when it shook from side to side? I mean would it have been enough to see the analog soundtrack if the aspect ratio was proper? I've seen this before, but only on certain Christies in a given booth. The problem always follows the gate. Do you know what type of projectors they were using? I'm curious.

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Erich Loepke
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Ft. Worth, TX, USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 12-07-1999 11:46 AM

Brad,

The side-to-side shake wasn't quite that bad, but I sure noticed it throughout the whole film! It's sort of like the image unsteadiness you get when watching VHS tape, especially on an older TV. The kind where portions of the image are shifting back and forth with respect to one another.

This was the theater that I worked at ten years ago for my first job. If they haven't changed any of their equipment in the booth, that means they are running Simplex XL projectors. Just a few weeks ago, I saw "Sleepy Hollow" on a different screen in the same house, and the presentation was quite good indeed! Good focus, clean film, and rock steady picture. When I saw the VHS-like pictures on the Bond film I said to myself "What gives?"

I almost wonder if this isn't one of those rare occasions where air currents from the HVAC system are causing this effect. It's fairly cold here in Chicago right now.

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-07-1999 11:58 AM

Erich, I disagree with the term "pixelvision" about the TI DLP. If you sit more than a screen height away, you are not going to notice the pixelization. It is no different than if you stuck your nose up to a tv set and noticed the red, blue and green dots.

If you look hard enough, you will see it. If you are there to enjoy the show and story, then it is no different than a good presentation with a quality print.

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Erich Loepke
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Ft. Worth, TX, USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 12-07-1999 01:43 PM

Maybe the pixels themselves won't be so noticeable, but there will be those so-called compression artifacts to deal with. One could also say that if you're there to enjoy the story and show, that it doesn't matter whether there are green lines on the screen. Of course, most people probably don't notice them either.

I used "pixelvision" because I saw an LCD video projector at an audio store some years ago. I looked at the picture, and the pixels jumped right out at me. I wasn't even looking for them! I'm not aware of any DLP presentations being run here in the Chicago area, but if anyone knows of any, I'll make it a point to go and see for myself.

What I don't like about all these new digital technologies is they rely too much on compression techniques. Compression is actually a misnomer as what is actually happening is data reduction. "Compressed" data can be restored to its original form. MPEG, JPEG, MP3, and so on are all data reduction schemes that eliminate data based on whether or not it's thought to be useful. Since these are all referred to as compression schemes, that's what I'll call them. I'd bet if CDs had all this compression from the start that we'd still be buying phonograph records. You can bet that compression rates will go up and quality will go down once DLP becomes established. We're seeing uncompressed demos of DLP to get everyone to think this is the greatest thing since the discovery of fire.

Also, the ultimate aim of digital techniques always seems to be "Let's have something that's adequate". Not "Let's have the best", just something adequate. You'll have 1024 X 768 (or whatever DLP uses) resolution, no more, no less. They're admitting film is better when they say "Near 35mm-quality". Why didn't they go for "near 70mm quality" instead? Unfortunately all you need to do these days to convice the masses something is better is just to slap a DIGITAL label on it.

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-07-1999 04:47 PM

I agree that there is marketing going on to get the movie goer in the doors. ALL Stadium Seating, Wide Aisles, DIGITAL Whatever.

Just to let you know, or you can find the thread.
DLP is 1280 x 1024. Compression is 17:1 It DOES NOT use MPEG technology, instead each frame is compressed. Otherwise, I think you would have streaming video type presentation where you would have artifacts because of the differential between each frame. By the way, for all. It took about 34 GB of disk to store Toy Story 2 + trailers (Tigger, Bicentennial Man, Dinosaur, Policy, 2 TI DLP). QU-Bit system uses 4 - 18Gb drives that are mirrored to another 4 - 18GB drives. Incase one drive can't read, then it immediately goes to the mirror.

You will have a showing of Bicentennial man in DLP in Chicago, IL: AMC South Barrington 30.

Unfortunately, you will not be able to see Toy Story in DLP, but like people have said, they cheated because they took it directly from the computer. Bicentennial Man is being done by film transfer so depending on the quality of the original, you will see dirt, etc.

Paul Konen
Cinemark Legacy 24

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