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Author Topic: Toy Story
Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-01-1999 05:50 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We received 3 prints of Toy Story this past week. The first came on the previous Thurdsay. It was pretty good. The others came on Tuesday afternoon. They weren't so good. All 3 prints have the jitters to some degree but the two 'late' prints have halos in the credits. The top edges of the letters are pinkish. (Magenta actually) It looks like the registration is off, somehow.

FilmGuard has minimized the jitter.

Any coroborration on this?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-01-1999 08:49 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I've had to replace some reels on mine because of this. It's so bad, customers are coming out and complaining...loudly! The trailers play steady and the instant those reels are over, back to normal everything goes. I'll report back on my replacement reels when I get them.

Something really must be done about all these lab registration problems. NATO or perhaps even Kodak should step in.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-02-1999 12:00 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Labs stepping up the quality? Now way! Like that's gonna happen! Pytlak says that labs do a crappy job because of economic necessity. Why would the labs care? They don't!

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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 12-02-1999 12:24 AM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Why should they care? Simple. If they keep puttin gout such crap, they will assure digitla cinema will take over and they will all go out of buisness.

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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 12-02-1999 02:15 AM      Profile for Michael Barry   Email Michael Barry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The print I ran this morning (opening day in Sydney!) was pretty much perfect. It's a new print which I believe was printed locally.

'Three to Tango', on the other hand, had the vertical jitters towards the end of two of the spools (opening day for this film too). The theatre I ran it at ended up with the exact same print that I ran at a preview theatrette just two days ago! (and yes, the vertical movement was present there also).

It seems odd that Toy Story 2 is being digitally projected in the US, and it just so happens that film prints of that title have stability problems...can anyone say 'grassy knoll'?

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Erika Hellgren
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 168
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-02-1999 04:09 AM      Profile for Erika Hellgren   Email Erika Hellgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We have some jitter problems on one of our prints, and luckily we've only gotten one complaint about it. My manager told me the guy who complained sounded like he was probably a former projectionist. Of course, he thought it was our fault and suggested that we tighten our trap bands or something. What irks me is that he didn't bother to notice how clean our print was, or how awesome the sound was. If he's a former projectionist or a tech or something, he knows that we never receive compliments! I would love to have talked to the guy myself.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 12-03-1999 07:31 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe --- I NEVER said "that labs do a crappy job because of economic necessity". The labs DO care about quality.

All of the major laboratories try to do the best job possible, within the time constraints and competitive pressures they have to face on a daily basis. Many times, the final cut negative arrives only days before prints have to be in theatres, so there is not time to do pin-registration printing of the intermediate films, or to use slower release printing speeds. Lab splices are an "economic necessity" in release prints, since few reel lengths are exact multiples of the 4000-foot or 6000-foot raw stock lengths supplied by the film manufacturers.

In an ideal world, the labs would be given the time and money to make the intermediates on their much slower pin-registered printers, eliminating the slippage that occurs on continuous contact printers, improving steadiness and sharpness. In an ideal world, three 1700-foot reels would be printed onto a 6000-foot roll of raw stock, and the 900 feet of "short end" waste (worth about $80.00) would be discarded, rather than using lab splices (the film manufacturers would LOVE this to happen ) In an ideal world, each print would be made on a slow wet-gate printer. In an ideal world, every one of the 3235 prints of "Toy Story 2" would be inspected by projecting it and listening to all four soundtracks.

But this is the REAL world. A release print is not as sharp or steady as a direct wet-gate print from the original negative. Lab splices are a pain. A reel with a steadiness or soundtrack problem does sometimes get missed by lab inspection. But the quality of today's release prints is remarkably good, considering that the labs are forced to turn out thousands of prints in a matter of days at competitive prices.

Digital cinema may not have these problems, but it will have a bunch of new ones, driven by the same time and cost pressures.

------------------
John Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Eastman Kodak Company
Rochester, NY 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-03-1999 04:01 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John-

I did not mean that as a direct quote, but you have said that lab splices exist for that very reason. Although they did not exist in the past as much as they exist today. So therefore the labs have indeed stepped down quality due to "economic necessity"

Also, if they care about quality, why do they print the films so darned fast, resulting in a completely unsteady image no matter what you do to your projector? The majority of 6th Sense prints had this problem. Personally, I think it is an economic necessity that the labs get every print as close to 100% perfect as possible. There is absolutely no excuse for anything less in this industry. None. Each week I must replace at least 1 reel, and depending on how many movies open, maybe more soley because the lab did not print them correctly. This can be scratches throughout the reel, giant black blobs all over the place, dyes shifting colors (which always happens after a lab splice passes, also kicking out the Dolby Digital... lab splices are unacceptable), to a jittery image. This was not the case years ago. Even when polyester first came out this was not quite the problem it is now. The labs simply cannot meet the quality standards we need, nor can they keep up with the demand required by more movies/more theatres, thus printing the film way too fast. The labs suck for the most part, with very few exceptions.

If digital video is the way we need to go to alleviate these problems, so be it. We asked for it.

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Scott Ribbens
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 118
From: Los Angeles
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 12-04-1999 06:18 PM      Profile for Scott Ribbens   Email Scott Ribbens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Joe, Like John said, the labs are getting less and less time to make more prints. If the studio has a release date that they have to make, they want the prints in the Theatre on that date. It does not matter to the studio that they just got done cutting and conforming the negative a week prior to the opening date. Remember that it used to be unheard of to go much over a run of say 1000 prints of a show, and in the last few years 2500 to 3000+ prints is fairly common!
You started to see the lab splices as a common thing around the time when they got into the 2000+ prints a film. At least that was when I started to see them on a fairly regular basis.

Sure, let's get the labs to take even more time than they do now, and we will just see when TES gets you your print!

The labs are in the unfortunate position of having to meet the deadlines that the studios give them. Maybe the people that you need to blame for this are the studios,for the deadlines that they have, and the theatre chains for putting up so many big mega-plexes so that the labs have to make so many prints!

I've been in the labs, and seen them printing, it's pretty impressive! I'm surprised that there are not more problems. The labs do R&D to improve what they do. For the most part they are operated 24/7, so longer working hours won't let them slow down the printing time. I give them credit for being able to get they job done on time with all of the bs that they get from the studios.

------------------

Scott

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-06-1999 05:44 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the labs cannot meet demand with acceptable results (which they don't seem to be able to), why not build more labs? I mean, DUH! If the demand for Slurpees went to an all time high, do you think 7-11 would just make them pump them out faster and then your Slurpee would be all gooey and watery? Maybe. But they'd probably just build more 7-11's to meet the worldwide Slurpee demand. I say build more labs. If no, then why not? Is this industry seriously that stupid? Other industries find ways to solve their problems within economical means. Why not ours? Oh yeah, we have--- digital video.


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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 12-06-1999 08:12 PM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I dont think the studios care once the film is in the can. The only real quality control is YOU the projectionist!

The labs have to get these things out to the depots as fast as possible.

I wish the local projectionists here in Western NC cared as much as you people do.

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