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Author Topic: Short reels
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-10-1999 11:23 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, what the hell...Ms. Joan of Carbon Arc (Messenger) is TEN reels, but will fit on two 6000' reels!!!

There are 2 reels in this that aren't even halfway full and actually NONE of them are very full at all! Who decides where the reels are cut? I haven't screened the film yet, so I can't say if it was cut in this manner for aesthetic reasons, but to put a movie that would've fit on 6 reels (7 REAL comfortably) on TEN...this is a bit extreme.

As I understand it, this isn't in ANYONE's best interest. The studios get charged by the depot "by the reel". It seems like someone told me the junk heap charges by the reel as well. I'll bet the lab charges more if the print is on 10 instead of 6. Surely a 3 can shipment costs more than a 2 can shipment. The projectionists have almost double the work to do (whew, glad I have a platter)...and the print will suffer (in most theaters) NINE spots of excessive dirt and wear, instead of 5.

So who's benefiting here? Anyone care to hazard a guess?


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-10-1999 11:37 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Excellent question! The same could be asked of "Music of the Heart" (8 reels) and to some extent, "The Insider"(10 reels). I'm surprised that Pokemon wasn't 17 reels (1 reel per frame of animation)

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-11-1999 07:01 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't forget the 1996 "Shall we Dance" (122 minutes, 9 reels) or the 1996 "Hamlet" (4 hours or so, 19 reels of 35mm or 20 reels of 70mm)...

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 11-11-1999 10:46 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I remember, "2001" was only about 2hr 20min, but came on 11 reels. I'm guessing that was because some stuff was cut out.
I ran a 70mm print; I pretty sure that c/o's are at the same place for both 35mm and 70mm films. The print we ran (in 1982) was a bit pink. I was very tempted to splice some reels
together, (I even tested it by winding one reel onto another; they easily fit onto a regular 70mm reel) but no one before me had cut the head/tails off, so it seemed "bad karma" for me to do it.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 11-11-1999 08:53 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually Scott, the 35mm 'Hamlet' was also twenty reels... and could EASILY have fit on 11-12 reels! The 1996 reissue of 'Das Boot' was only a half hour shorter than Hamlet and fit on 11 reels (and was acetate compared to Hamlet's Estar, so both prints took up the same amount of space on a platter-right to the edge)

Whats with these short reels? sheesh

Aaron

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Scott Ribbens
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 118
From: Los Angeles
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 11-12-1999 01:53 AM      Profile for Scott Ribbens   Email Scott Ribbens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey, It could be worse. I've had occasions to run film markets where they bring in a movie, sans cores, in 1k rolls. Nothing like building up a 13 reel show that is really 5 to 6 reels long, no cores, and the leaders chopped off with no id on them just thrown into the tin (and finding a r2 head and a r3 tail).

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Scott

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Stefan Scholz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 223
From: Schoenberg, Germany
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 11-12-1999 04:05 PM      Profile for Stefan Scholz   Author's Homepage   Email Stefan Scholz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
WE sometimes rent the theatre to Indian community people, and other ethnic groups, which bring in their films. Some of those films are composited of 17+ reels, some not bigger than trailer reels (les than 1 k ft). This is a real treat for our projectionists, making up the film and to break the film down from the platter at 1 in the morning.
Most American films at least have decent reel sizes, but it seems, reels were larger 15 years ago, even considering polyester film.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-12-1999 04:16 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Personally, I like having reel-1's that are slightly less than full; that way, it's easy just to splice a trailer or two onto the head of the first reel of the feature rather than having to make up a separate trailer reel. Obviously, this isn't an issue when using large reels or platters, but it does make life a little easier when running 2000' reels.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-12-1999 04:36 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
That makes it nice for changeover booths running large reels too! I always loved short R1s back in the changeover days.

Wouldn't it be nice if labs started on the last reel and wound between 1900-2000 feet, found a good spot to cut, then proceeded with the next to last reel until they just put the "leftover" footage on R1? It would make breakdown on platters easier too. I've seen many times where a short final reel will result in the entire print being broken down "not" at reel changes.

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George Roher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 266
From: Washington DC
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 11-12-1999 05:16 PM      Profile for George Roher   Email George Roher   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I once ran a festival in which most of the prints were on 1k reels, some on cores in metal tins. And there were 9 prints to build in one day. That was fun. Assembling animation festivals can be very frustrating as well.

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Scott Ribbens
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 118
From: Los Angeles
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 11-12-1999 05:16 PM      Profile for Scott Ribbens   Email Scott Ribbens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That would be nice, but those people who break a film down like that just don't care enough to do it right, and they would still just find the wrong place to cut it at anyhow.

I got a re-release print of Grease after the first couple of weeks that it came out, and some idiot did the fill a reel/cut fill a reel/cut thing, except they did not fill the reels, they just saw they went past the splice and cut the film. Upon building up the print I saw that they had even used opaque tape (white no less!). They wound up with, or I should say, I wound up with the opening credits/cartoon cut in half on reels #1 & 2.

But enough of that, it is not the lab that decides where where the reel changes go, it is the people who make the film,(editor,director), who make that decision.

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Scott

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Tom Ferreira
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 203
From: Conway, NH, USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-12-1999 10:59 PM      Profile for Tom Ferreira   Email Tom Ferreira   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My all time favorite "what the hell" moment was the Don Bluth animated film "Rock-A-Doodle". The final reel change was in the middle of the end credits. If I remember correctly, this was the fifth reel of a movie that ran about an hour and a quarter.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-15-1999 04:33 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I remember right, ther was a reel change in the credits of Scream. Yes, that was a "What the hell..." moment.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-15-1999 06:13 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There were, if I remember right, about a dozen frames of "picture" at the head of that last reel of "Scream." When we ran that film, I of course received a used print, and thought there had to be more "picture" area than that, so I requested and received a replacement reel. It was a brand-new reel. So we didn't gain much "lost" footage, but at least it enabled me to put the splice in the proper place (the previous used reel had been cut too far into the short "picture" area).

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Tom Ferreira
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 203
From: Conway, NH, USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-15-1999 06:28 PM      Profile for Tom Ferreira   Email Tom Ferreira   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Indeed, the final reel change for Scream was just before the end credits. There was about five frames that flashed the mask of the killer on the screen. Perhaps a subliminal hint at the sequels?

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