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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Christie CA21 automation problems. (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Christie CA21 automation problems.
Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-12-1999 10:18 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know how many of you out there have experience with Christie's CA21 automation. I really love it, but it has developed a problem that is really annoying, and I wonder if it has happened to anybody else? I sent Christie an e-mail a few minutes ago, and they have always been very helpful at resolving problems that I have had with it in the past, so hopefully they can help me out again. To save my fingers the task of retyping the problem, here is a copy of the letter that I sent to Christie. I'll let everybody know how it turns out.


Hello,

I am currently having considerable trouble with my Christie CA21 automations. They are all still under warranty. The problem is that they are not functioning properly when the failsafes are down or drop. What follows are some examples to help isolate the problem. I believe that a new EPROM must be made to fix the problem.

- Failsafes do not seem to be recognized by the CA21 100% of the time. For example, a movie will start and the platter take up will fail. One of two things will happen. In the best case scenario, the projector stops and the house lights come up. But the alarm does not sound anywhere in the building. We have a 16 plex and if a platter fails on the other side of the building, we need to know. The status panel does not display that the failsafes are down. It just looks as if nothing has happened. Usually it is the customers who do the informing. Every once in a blue moon the alarm will sound, and the status panel will reflect that. Worst case scenario is that the movie starts, platter fails to take up, and the automation does not see the failsafes at all, continuing to motor the film onto the floor! This has happened. Yes, the failsafes are properly hooked up and I can recreate the problem on any automation in the building. When the automation is in "exit" mode, raising and dropping the failsafes is displayed immediately on the status panel, so there is an obvious software glitch.

-Another bad thing is that it takes 9 seconds after the show has started before the CA21 even begins to look for the failsafes. In my opinion, the show should not even try to start if even one failsafe is down. The result of this 9 second delay (when the failsafes are actually recognized by the CA21) is tons of leader and film on the floor.

-Another big issue is that of power surges. Every once in awhile the power will go out for 4 or 5 seconds and come back on. This is enough to stop the platters, but not enough to stop the CA21 from telling the projector to keep motoring when the power comes back on. Yes, tons of film on the floor, even though the failsafes are down. I have discovered that (through tests I have performed) that when the CA21 is running a program and is shut off, it must be shut off for at least 10 seconds or so before turning the unit back on. If you turn the unit back on before this amount of time, it will tell the projectors to keep going. This is bad. The CA21 needs to shut off the projectors and exit whatever program it is running if power is disconnected for even a split second. The alarm should also sound. This wouldn't be a problem if the CA21 was able to recognize the failsafes.

Basically what it comes down to is this--- the CA21 should not even try to run if the failsafes are down, but it does. And if the failsafes drop for any reason, the CA21 needs to know to stop at once, and an alarm would be nice.

Hopefully we can nip this thing in the bud and get it fixed. I am willing to give you as much information as possible and run any tests that you need me to so that we can remedy this problem. I'm sure that you are already wanting more information. But just so you don't have to ask, here are the sequence of events on our CA21's:

1. Motor Start (timed start)
2. (Cue on leader) Auto Start, lights mid, volume adjust.
3. Lights down. Dolby Digital (if applicable)
4. Volume adjust up
5. Lights mid
6. Auto stop, volume adjust.
7. Timed delay for worklights
8. Lights mid
9. EXIT

We do not motor the leader to the '9' mark when we thread. That is pointless. Just so you know how we do things. Lately the platters have not been failing, but this is a major issue anyway, and needs to be resolved. Thank you in advance for your time and effort.

Joe Redifer

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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 09-13-1999 12:42 AM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe, I am having the same problem with my 3Q's not sounding alarms or stopping machines when the takeup fails. If Christie tells you what is going on, please let me know. I am running 3Q's with QX-10 cue expanders and FM-35 failsafes.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-14-1999 07:46 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christie is investigating the problem, so it could take awhile to come up with any workable solutions. I have not heard of your automation before... it is interesting that it has the same problem! Who is the manufaturer of your automation?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-14-1999 07:51 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, an aquaintence of mine who the rest of the world knows by the name "Gary Stanley" suggested that perhaps my automation (and perhaps the 3Q as well) was desined with reel to reel projectors in mind. If you had a momentary power surge, you would want things to keep going. And the failsafes would only be used in case of a film break. The automation was designed and built in Austrailia by Pennywise, so who knows what they think down there. (I am not picking on your country, Stephen Jones, just Pennywise).

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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 09-15-1999 01:25 PM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The 3Q is manufactured by Christie. It is their cheaper, not computerized automation (no computers, just a bunch of relays). From what Christie told me, odds are the film motion sensor is not hooked up.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-15-1999 01:45 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's odd. I would try running some tests to see if each automation has the same problem. I have heard of lots of problems with film motion sensors from every manufacturer.. I don't like 'em. Failsafes work just fine in most scenarios (if the automation is looking at them).

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Stephen Jones
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Geelong Victoria Australia
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-15-1999 07:24 PM      Profile for Stephen Jones   Email Stephen Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Didnt think that you were picking on Australia Joe, I have had minor problems with the early models of the pennywise automation system in 1989-1990 with it not reading faults from failsafes lights not going down or coming up xenons not striking,programes stopping . The software was altered by the techs and some other ajustments made what they did I cant recall at the moment. They worked perfectly after that and the later versions of the system I have used in the last few years havent given any trouble at all and I still think its one of the best automation system I have used.

------------------

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Anthony Matarazzo
Film Handler

Posts: 30
From: Brisbane Australia
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-16-1999 06:55 AM      Profile for Anthony Matarazzo   Email Anthony Matarazzo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The person who designed the CA21 was a women here in Australia. She was a projectionist then worked here way up to a Tech. Now she is a chief in a Brisbane multiplex ( the first in Australia ) . I never used CA21, so I can't tell you what they like, but I can tell you about the AMX Multimation 2. 

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-16-1999 03:28 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anthony, how do you know this? I hope she got some good money for her design. Tell her to come up here and fix my automation Actually I don't know if it is the automation itself, or the EPROM that is programmed into it (that can be replaced). Christie programmed our EPROM. But then again, it could be something else entirely! Ug.

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Stephen Jones
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Geelong Victoria Australia
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-16-1999 09:39 PM      Profile for Stephen Jones   Email Stephen Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From what I understand the Pennywise easymation unit used by Village Roadshow was devised by a projectionist (Mike Densly)who designed the basic system and the manufacturing and further developments carried out by pennywise in association with Village as they wanted a automation system that would run sveral screens with only a couple of projectionists. Someone else here may know more about this than I do and I may stand corrected.The actual projector used to assist in the development of this sytem was a Kinoton F.P 30. This projector was installed in a 7 screen plex in Hobart Tasmania where I worked for 8 yrs useing of course the Easymation system.

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Mark Tan-Wanklyn
Film Handler

Posts: 2
From: Singapore
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 09-22-1999 12:04 PM      Profile for Mark Tan-Wanklyn   Author's Homepage   Email Mark Tan-Wanklyn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Has anyone at Christie (USA) replied to your mail as yet. Please let me know as if they have not done so, I shall pass you mail on to the Field Service Engineers here in Singapore for a responce.

------------------

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-22-1999 07:35 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So far I have gotten just one response from Christie. Here is that response copied directly from my e-mail box:

"Software engineer is investigating problem and possible solution.

Bevan"

So that is where we are right now.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-23-1999 04:36 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK now I am talking to Pennywise, who designed the unit. Supposedly I am the only one in the USA with these automations! That's kind of cool and scary at the same time. Anyway, the tech in Austrailia e-mailed Christie about my problems, and here's what he had to say:

"Bevan,
I'm looking into the "problems" and will report shortly.
Note that some of his described behaviour (or misbehaviour) is in fact
expected behaviour and that the "software glitch" mentioned for status
panels is in fact intended.
Anyway I'll go through the issues in turn, and let you know, but I accept
that a PROM change will be required for some of the issues.
Mark."

Hmmmmmmmm......

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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 09-23-1999 07:55 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Joe, your lucky. Usually the answer I get from suppliers is "Gee, that's funny, no one else has reported any problems".
The only exception was a manufacturer of a popular drive-in sound system with push-button selection for Projector 1, Non-Sync, and Projector 2. Above each of the buttons was a light, indicating which function was active.
Often, during a show, another light would come on, dimly, and the sound level would drop to one-half. When we reported it to the manufacturer, they replied "Yeah we've heard about that. If you find out what causes it, let us know".

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-24-1999 05:22 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually for the most part, I have had good luck dealing with manufacturers. I have run into a few who blame some other component or whatever (like Christie saying the problem with their Dolby Digital basement readers is Dolby's fault) but other than that, I've been doing pretty well with stuff like that. When a drive in my DTS unit fails, DTS sends out a whole new kit of drives! Dolby is pretty quick to fix any "screw ups" that may occur in a new product. Hell, if you have an old DA10 digital decoder, then give Dolby a call--they'll send you a DA20! Christie has done well in many other areas, and Kodak has been responsive as well. I love customer support!

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