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Author Topic: Hearing Aid Loop Systems & SDDS
AndrewBurnell
Film Handler

Posts: 17
From: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 08-23-1999 04:13 AM      Profile for AndrewBurnell   Email AndrewBurnell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can anyone please tell me how hearing aid loops work? It is a question that has had me thinking since the start of working at a cinema. As you can guess I'm not in projection but am *hopefully* being trained upstairs in a few months.

Also, what are your feelings on SDDS? We don't have SDDS in Australia and I was wondering what is sounded like/is like to work with.

Thank you for your time,
Andrew

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-23-1999 04:33 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I can't help you out on the hearing aid thing, but here are my general opinions on SDDS:

First and foremost, most of the units are completely unreliable. This is due to 2 major factors.

#1 is the incredibly complex LED arrays which scan the film as it trots by. Unfortunately these have a lifespan of about 1000 or so hours (maybe longer on the new ones.) They don't all burn out at once. Maybe 1 or 2 in each array will go bad. But the SDDS will still try to play, and you will have no clue that any LEDS have gone bad because there isn't any indication on the SDDS unit whether it is cutting to the backup track or cutting in and out successively. But a trip to the auditorium will reveal the problem! Can't miss it!

#2 is the fact that the SDDS digital track is located on the outer edges of the film. This part of the film gets the most wear and tear, by leaps and bounds. In fact, during nearly the entire travel of the film, these outer edges are the only thing to come in contact with rollers, coarse gates, traps and intermittent shoes, etc... It quickly deteriorates. Plus the fact that the film labs print the type of film stock every few feet on these edges, and some films (although not too many anymore) have cues printed on the edges that are compatible with Dolby's automation system (anybody know more about this?). None of this can help the SDDS read the data.

As far as sound, it seems to me as if they sacrificed some quality for more channels. Have you ever heard the sound quality of a MiniDisc? Well, SDDS is the same exact thing (ATRAC compression) only it is one of the first generations of ATRAC which can sound metallic and hollow. So if you can find one of the first MD recorders around (like the MZ-1) then that is how SDDS sounds, only with 6 channels (up to 8) instead of 2. I can't find any flaws with the way current MiniDiscs sound, but Dolby and DTS both sound noticeably better than SDDS.

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AndrewBurnell
Film Handler

Posts: 17
From: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 08-23-1999 05:43 AM      Profile for AndrewBurnell   Email AndrewBurnell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you for your reply,

Does SDDS often use all 8 channels or is it mainly just using 6, to which I see no real advantage over DTS or Dolby Digital!

I guess Sony haven't maintained their domestic line reputation with their Cinema Product.


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-23-1999 06:13 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think that there are perhaps 3 movies a year that are released in 8 channel SDDS. I have heard mixes in 8-channel and I cannot notice the difference myself. What Dolby Digital and DTS basically do is have a phantom image of the LE and RE channels, so the sound is basically there, it is just more discrete on SDDS. I think SDDS's 8 channels would have been better used as
Left
Center
Right
Subwoofer
Left Surround
Right Surround
Left Surround Rear
Right Surround Rear
That way it would be far better than EX, with no new equipment upgrades. Plus the back wall would be in true stereo, so flyarounds would sound really good, provided the SDDS unit was in tip top shape.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-23-1999 02:30 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I think Joe's pretty much summed it all up nicely. To answer your question in the most simplest form...


  • SDDS is ridiculously expensive ($14,000)
  • SDDS is very unreliable
  • SDDS does NOT sound as good as DTS and SRD
  • SDDS places their track in the most susceptible area of the film for damage
  • SDDS requires their leds be changed every year ($400)
  • SDDS has 8 channels, but no one uses them, so why bother?

Basically it is a big joke as far as I'm concerned. Hats off to Paramount and Fox for realizing this and dropping the format for most of their films, if not all.

Oh yeah, what kind of hearing aid system do you have?

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Jason Burroughs
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Allen, TX
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-23-1999 08:21 PM      Profile for Jason Burroughs   Email Jason Burroughs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad you also forgot to mention the $850 DEC-77 board that goes out frequently.
Along with the LEDs this makes the SDDS player very unreliable and EXPENSIVE to run and maintain.

So far most of the problems I've seen that originally looked like LED problems turned out to be the DEC-77 board. But a bad DEC-77 can cause some quite amusing problems with the sound system in general. I had one today that was causing a squealing in the auditorium. During intermission!!
SDDS = Still Don't Do Shit

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Stephen Jones
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Geelong Victoria Australia
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-23-1999 10:52 PM      Profile for Stephen Jones   Email Stephen Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are a few sdds systems in Australia some independants have the system installed but as for the major chains they use DTS or Dolby digital, I think some Hoyts multiplexes use SDDS but I am not 100% sure I will try and find out some more info for you.

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AndrewBurnell
Film Handler

Posts: 17
From: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 08-24-1999 04:05 AM      Profile for AndrewBurnell   Email AndrewBurnell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't worry, I work for Hoyts!

I haven't heard anything through the grapevine about SDDS, I assumed Greater Union would be the ones to use it as they keep up with technology more than Hoyts.

Brad: I dont know how it works but we have an extra amplifier with runs some kind of cable around the interior of the cinema (hidden of course) and this must make it easier for the hearing aids to get signal <shrug>!

I don't know what brand of amp it is, all our amps have Hoytech printed on the front (how inventive).

Another thing I found weird was that all our screen speakers are JBL, and all our surround speakers are Krix! Didn't think acoustics would match.

As far as your screenvision conversation went. We just play a selection of slides at the start of each movie (usually 5-10, only 30secs each) accompanied by tape, we then play usually 3-4 previews and into the feature it goes.

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Stephen Jones
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Geelong Victoria Australia
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-25-1999 01:22 AM      Profile for Stephen Jones   Email Stephen Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew, G.U.O use Dolby Digital and D.T.S. as do Village Roadshow as far as S.D.D.S goes there are a couple theatres in Queensland and as I have just found out there are a couple in Western Australia (thanks Mark) as I said before there are not many, if any one in Oz nows of any more let us know.

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Steffan Laugharne
Film Handler

Posts: 15
From: Biggleswade, Beds, UK
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-22-2001 03:26 PM      Profile for Steffan Laugharne   Email Steffan Laugharne   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've been trawling through the archives, being new to the group and no one has replied to the original question: how does a Hearin Impaired loop work. Well here goes.

The a.c. current of an audio signal passing through a wire will create an elctromagnetic field that radiates out from the wire. When two wires are in close proximity to each other, the electromagnetic field of one will induce a current in the other. The loop running around the theatre forms one 'wire' and the second 'wire' is the so called T-coil in the deaf persons hearing aid. Thus the signal from the induction loop driver is picked up by the hearing aid. Of course the stength of 'pick up'or induction varies with distance. This will explain why badly positioned induction loops will cause cross talk between adjacent theatres in a multiplex.

All the best

Steff

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-22-2001 10:22 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you have a SDDS that seems to be misbehaving on you there is one way to get an indication of how well it's reading but it is rather rudimentary:

Open the door of the decoder and look inside, on the left side of the lower PC board. There is a row of surface mount LEDs. Take a look at the second and third LEDs from the left. The second LED indicates that the system is getting a "lock" on the "P-Track". (Picture-Side, or inboard track.) The third one indicates that they system is getting a lock on the "S-Track". (Soundtrack-Side, or outboard track.)

If one of these LEDs is flickering or goes out completely you are losing (or have lost) the data from that track. At this point you can still get the "backup" data from the other track but it will probably sound really crummy. If both of the LEDs go out then you have lost SDDS sound entirely. The player will kick out of digital.

Okay... So this amounts to nothing more than an "idiot light". It's like the oil pressure light on your car's instrument panel that basically tells you that your engine just blew up. At least when people keep calling you up and saying, "The sound is all messed up.", you have something to verify the unit's operation. (Or lack thereof.)

One thing I would like is to make the processor defalut back to analogue and stay there after a certain number of times.

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