|
|
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
|
|
Author
|
Topic: Automation Systems
|
|
|
Aaron Mehocic
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 804
From: New Castle, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 07-30-1999 09:52 AM
That system sound pretty good and I would not mind playing around with it. I like Neumade Maxi-12 XPC automation systems myself simply because they are more modern than the system I was trained on. That system was RGM automation and the three original screens at our theater still have them. Truthfully, there is not much more you can do with Neumade Maxi than with an RGM, both have manual bulb and excitor controls, both have changeover controls, and both have curtain controls, but I have been told RGM's date from the late 1950's and the technology is not as good as other systems out there. Moreover, (but this is not the fault of the automation), the RGM's are wired to old Hunt dimmers that don't allow for a 1/2 light setting. That means an operator has to physically be at the light switch at the start of end credits or the crowd will be walking out of the auditorium in the dark. That is hell when you know you have to flip the switch in auditorium #1, but need to start projector #9!
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Randy Stankey
Film God
Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 07-30-1999 03:49 PM
I prefrer the automation I have here at Mercyhurst Coll. -- NO automation!It's just a latching relay going to the proj. motor and lamphouse. There's a start button and a kill switch. That's all. I just hooked up the Kelmar failsafe's cue detectors to turn the sound on and off. In the future I'm going to have the lights dim automaticly. I haven't seen any automation system that I like 100%. -- Someday, I want to invent one. Probably it will be P.L.C. based.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
|
posted 07-30-1999 04:14 PM
Thus far I haven't come across an automation that was versatile enough for my tastes. Ideally, the FILM should tell the automation what to do. An excellent example is the Kelmar/UA automation boxes (late models). They have bar code labels which is read by a scanner (similar to the ones at grocery stores) and each cue does a different task. There are also many "combo" cues on it, such as lights mid/douser open/sound change. There are a few problems with these units...First, the cues are huge and very noticeable when they pass through. I personally turn the readers around to scan the edge of the film, so the cues aren't in the picture area. Also, there is no user programming. Occasionally I want to do something that wasn't pre-programmed and it can't do it (rare, though). Also, there are a few quirks such as the douser opens on the cue and the sound waits 7 seconds before switching. This forces 10 feet of black leader after the cue or it looks like the projectionist started the movie and forgot about the sound. The best part about the Kelmar/UA automation was the "start" cue, though. No bother to motor/cue up the leader. Just thread it and let the cue start the show. You could put 500 feet of leader on there if you wanted to. Interlocking is a real breeze with that start cue too!Another model I liked was the Cinemation Mark 4. It relied on one cue over and over in a matrix design. Better not have cues on your trailers or next week the whole thing will get out of sequence when the ads change! Also, it had no start cue and not enough options. Joe Redifer sent me some info on the Christie CA-21 automation. This looks pretty well laid out, although I haven't worked with it to find problems with it. Right off the bat, there still isn't enough command lines! Also, this relies on the same cue over and over which could potentially have the same problems as the Mark 4 automation above. But, this unit actually controls the remote fader option of your cinema processor. It can be programmed to change fader settings per trailer!!! If there is anyone out there who is reading this who is planning on devising an automation, please email me so I can send you the requirements for a truly full-blown automation! It MUST have some form of edge mounted bar codes to make programming ON the film. It MUST have a "start" cue. It MUST have the remote fader option of the Christie model above. It MUST be able to control at least 40 different items (including 8 sound formats, 3 masking setings, curtains, 4 step house lights, stage lights, douser, lens, changeover, etc, etc, etc.) Also, the unit should be able to store 7 different "showtimes" per day on the timer...although a straight "countdown" timer should also be included. 5 minutes before a film's programmed start time, if the failsafes aren't up, it should sound a "thread" alarm! If not using the timers, 2 minutes after the programmed start time, it should sound off a "start" alarm. There should be a timing circuit in there too, so after a "new show" button is pressed, it will start timing the show in minutes and seconds. This could give the operator total show time and remaining show time at any point in the feature after that first run or trailer changeout (visible on status panels too). In addition, it could sound an alarm if it doesn't read a cue that passed by at a certain time on the "new show" command. (I wouldn't want it to actually perform the command, but an alarm would be nice.) Ok, fine. Everyone thinks I'm crazy now. But, if automations were build like this, problems would significantly decrease in the multiplexes!
| IP: Logged
|
|
Randy Stankey
Film God
Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 07-30-1999 04:44 PM
I don't think you're crazy. These monsterous automation controllers that I've seen are all stupid in one way or another!I believe that an automation controller ahould be about the size of a shoe box. (Except for the control panel & terminal blocks) They use Programmable Logic Controllers for industrial process control in factories and stuff. A movie projector is just a special case of an industrial process control. They've been using PLCs for that for years! Why do projectors have to be relay-driven? Heck! With all of the computer technology we have today, you'd think it would be trivial to design. If I had the $$$ I'd be designing one right now!
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joe Redifer
You need a beating today
Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99
|
posted 07-31-1999 03:41 AM
I do not like bar codes. They are big and unreliable. I can't tell you how many times I have had a scanner die. Strong's barcode automation of the old days was similar to UA's bar code system (it used the same cues) but it was at least 10 to 20 times better. It had the amazing ability to switch all relays simultaneously. There should be something that you can put on the SDDS track opposite side of the optical track so the cue cannot be seen, yet still somehow manages to have specific instructions. I don't know how there can be a remote fader with film specific cues, however. You would have to have a cue specifically for telling the sound to go to 6.6 or whatever. Or you could just have a sound change cue, but then you would have to "program" that info in there. A start cue is good if you are really lazy. I don't really miss it. I could easilly configure the CA-21 to have a start cue on the leader, but I am so used to motoring it anyway that I have never really had any reason to do so. If I get really fed up with it I will switch to a start cue on the leader. Overall, I am perfectly happy with the Christie CA-21 automation. It's worst feature is that the clocks sometimes get too fast and must be set a minute or two back to match the others. "programming" the automation is simple and it only has to be done during initial setup. You have to flip between flat and scope movies, but that is a press of 1 button. We have never needed more than 3 programs (1 flat, 1 scope, and 1 special). And we have never even come close to using all 16 steps. So 16 steps is plenty unless you want to go cue crazy. The status panels tell you if the trailers are playing, if the movie is playing, if the credits are playing, and if the timer is set. Sometimes #20 lights up (we only have 16 projectors) but other than that they are pretty reliable. I like the CA-21! The only thing I would add is a central computer station linking them all together with a central clock by which they all are set, and the ability to monitor and change settings from this central computer.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anthony Matarazzo
Film Handler
Posts: 30
From: Brisbane Australia
Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 07-31-1999 06:02 AM
I have used three different automation since I have been working in the booth.( In Australia ) First was when I was working for Hoyts. The basic matrix pinning. Very easy automation. Second and third is with Greater Union. We use a basic programmable event control, and the other is a very good automation which is called AMX from the AMX Corp, fully computerized and easy to use. You can program e all your weeks sessions. On another note, It's hard to find information here in Australia on projection matters. I have learnt a lot from reading other projectionist problems and problem solving techniques. This web page is outstanding, Thanks Brad Miller and all of the other projectionist who write in. When I get a change I will send some pictures of the cinema I work for,
Anthony Matarazzo
[This message has been edited by Anthony Matarazzo (edited 07-31-1999).]
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
|
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
|
Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2
The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion
and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.
|
Home
Printer-friendly view of this topic