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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Depot packing (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Depot packing
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17638
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-23-1999 09:23 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
For the last few weeks, I have been seeing prints from the Technicolor depot come in with the string from the paper reel bands wrapped around the center hub of the reel. How annoying! It is virtually impossible to unravel this string without breaking it, defeating the whole purpose of the bands. My guess is they are wrapping the cores of film and THEN popping the reel on. Anyone else notice this?

Also, isn't the whole purpose of the label sticker which goes on these bands to identify the reel? I keep getting prints where the label is used to tape the band down (instead of using the string) and the label must be destroyed in order to retrieve the film off the reel. Again, anyone else having this problem?

One would think Tech could afford to find someone managing their packing department who has once worked in a projection booth.

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Erika Hellgren
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 168
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-23-1999 11:26 PM      Profile for Erika Hellgren   Email Erika Hellgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, Brad, I have noticed all of the above lately. Personally, I can't stand reel bands!!! They're a pain in the butt. I look for excuses to throw them away. Oops, just stepped on a reel band -- must go in the trash.
And while we're on the subject of the depots, have you noticed that more and more prints are coming with the reels heads, tails, heads, tails!!!! It used to be only Paramount prints that came that way. Both our prints of Eyes Wide Shut were like that. Yeah, just what I need, to rewind 4 out of 9 reels when I'm building up film.
ALL FILM SHOULD BE SHIPPED ALL TAILS UP! Yeah right, keep dreaming, Erika

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17638
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-24-1999 12:04 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
EXACTLY! If even a single reel band is damaged, the entire set must be thrown away.

The prints coming head, tail, head, tail don't bother me near as much as trailers coming in that way. I use two tables side by side and I do a quick check of all prints Thursday nights and use the "auto rewind" arm on the second table to take care of those while I work on the other bench. With all the corporate ads and garbage that must go on prints nowadays it "can" take more time to put the trailers together!

Who else is tired of Fox and Paramount trailers coming wound emulsion in? It drives me crazy because it takes a few days for them to "relax" from that torture so they will focus properly. Often, I will wind those trailers back over when I get them in so they are emulsion out and just wait 3 days before putting them on screen.

Hey, while I'm ranting...what's up with all the garbage in the soundtrack area of trailers? I'm talking about negative dirt, bloops, etc that sound like crap if not cut off. And whatever happened to the nice 2-3 foot black strips before and after the trailers? Nowadays, sometimes the beginnings must be cut off due to garbage on the image and the ends frequently must be cut off due to noise in the audio track.

Let's not forget the current state of green bands! Check out Universal's bands in particular. They are printed with dark corners which look like a xenon in bad need of alignment.

One last thing and I'll quit. Does anyone here know how much extra $$$ it really costs to print frame lines?

Someone needs to tip these labs off to such mistakes. Anyone have any contacts?

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George Roher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 266
From: Washington DC
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 07-24-1999 12:07 AM      Profile for George Roher   Email George Roher   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have also had a ton of films come in half heads/half tails up. It is very annoying. I personally like prints to come in heads up.

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Erika Hellgren
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 168
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-24-1999 02:32 AM      Profile for Erika Hellgren   Email Erika Hellgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh God, I miss the days of having two make-up benches side by side! At my theatre, we have four booths, and two make-up benches in separate booths, so the heads - tails thing is probably more annoying to me than to most.
OK, now you've hit the nail on the head about the trailers. I notice lately that on attached trailers, the DTS code runs out before the COMING SOON frames disappear. I always cut the trailer before that happens. Just a personal pet peeve. And yes, somebody really needs to tell these people to print frame lines!!!! No Buena Vista trailer will ever have them. ARGGGGGG! And, no kidding, you don't have to crack open a Fox or Paramount trailer to figure out how it was wound. They wind them wrong religiously. Like it's a sin to do it right.
Sorry, I build up about 90% of the film that comes to our theatre, so I welcome the chance to bitch about these types of things.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-24-1999 03:22 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, everybody sucks! Actually, when reels come in heads and tails, it really pisses me off. I usually blame the director of the particular movie just because I need a name to yell at in my angst. I know that the director has nothing to do with it, but I gotta yell at someone. Trailers wound heads or tails doesn't really bother me. I can just spool them off into a cardboard box quicker than winding them onto the reel. Then from there it is spliced and wound with the rest of the trailers. I hate trailer work... it takes forever because so many need to go on. After I get done that and start working on the print, it really goes fast (unless there are many many lab splices).

If there is even the slightest tear or imperfection in a reel band, then that is excuse enough for me to throw every single reel band in the theatre in the trash!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17638
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-24-1999 06:14 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Whew! Good thing I didn't mention Tech's reels that won't stay together. Glad I'm not the only one that is getting put out with such nonsense.

I failed to mention one other thing earlier. Do anyone else's reels come in with so much dust on them that a bath of plain old yard dirt would make them cleaner? I have to keep a box of paper towels at the rewind bench just so I can bend the flanges back to wipe them somewhat clean. Otherwise, the dirt from the reels will get on the print as it is being unwound. Guess Tech doesn't have a maid service to dust for them.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 7929
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-24-1999 06:21 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, I kind of like reel bands, and they are far preferable to the really cheap masking tape that a lot of people use to keep the film from unwinding and cinching in shipment. Of course, I am referring to the "good" reel bands that are rarely seen now, except on Sony Pictures Classics releases (or so it seems). The Technicolor reel bands are a waste of time, since the string usually breaks off and they have to be taped together, anyway, defeating the purpose of reel bands entirely.

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Thomas Ferreira
Film Handler

Posts: 23
From: Claremont, NH
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 07-24-1999 08:09 AM      Profile for Thomas Ferreira   Author's Homepage   Email Thomas Ferreira   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You know, I piss and moan about this every time I put a print together-nice to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Most of the time, I just toss the bands in the trash to make it easier for the next guy. What really irks me, though, is when I get a used print and someone used a half a roll of masking tape to attach the heads and tails to the film. When I break down a film, I break the splice and put a piece of splicing tape over one side to reattach the film. I had a used print of American Pie come in this week where the last person who built it up left about eight frames on the heads and tails. What's the point of this? I think you can identify the proper reel with one or two frames just as easily as eight.
And yes, Brad, you're right about those reel id stickers-and if you try to peel them off, they take a chunk of the band with them. Remember the days when that information used to be written on the band? Personally, if there's no band, I find it easier to look into the can, put the reels in order, and discern if any are tails up.

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Jim Bedford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 597
From: Telluride, CO, USA (733 mi. WNW of Rockwall, TX but it seems much, much longer)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-24-1999 12:22 PM      Profile for Jim Bedford   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Bedford   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There should be a law that doesn't allow masking or silver tape in projection booths.

We have two theatres that show films reel-to-reel and it is simply unbelieveable how film sometimes comes in from its previous screening. Leaders gone or on the wrong reels, masking or silver tape holding the film down, etc. One of the reasons I think forums like this are so important is that they can link people together and can be a source for education and teaching new projectionist how to improve their craft and how to solve problems.

Thanks to all of you who are truly trying to make things better. Thanks Brad!

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-24-1999 03:51 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only tape allowed in my booth is Scotch tape (not used on film) and the white artists tape. The white tape does not leave any kind of residue on the film at all, and it is easy to write reel numbers or titles on. I always write down the reel number on a piece of white tape as I am building, and as the film is broken down, that tape is used to secure the leader to itself, thus making everything easy to identify for the next person to get the print.

[This message has been edited by Joe Redifer (edited 07-24-99).]

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George Roher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 266
From: Washington DC
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 07-24-1999 11:54 PM      Profile for George Roher   Email George Roher   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
God, it is a pain when a print comes in with the heads and tails taped on by a popcorn operator. But I've had even worse. I used to work at an art house that received many used prints that had seen many booths. Prints would come in with no tape or bands on the reels, there would be a tangled mess of loose film in the cans. It sometimes took a while to separate and identify the different reels from each other. I even had one print come in without any leader on reel one. The first frame on the reel was the feature. We requested a replacement since the whole prints was also scratched up. The replacement came it and it was another tangled mess of loose film that I had to unravel before build up. And even worse, I once got a print of Rocky Horror which had a splice or a torn sprocket every few inches of the entire feature!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17638
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-25-1999 12:45 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, most art houses can't afford real operators, nor good equipment. That's why those prints are always so bad.

What's worse are the art houses which are so "poor" they can't even invest in a platter, and will run a film for a few weeks at a time. The stress involved in brute force pulling of the supply reel and rewinding after every show is where most of the damage comes from. Lots of cinch marking from the "pull" of the supply reel and rewinding, plus the static dirt attraction from rewinding all make for a poor presentation. Let's not forget all the manual handling of the heads and tails of each film every single show too! I've always said if the print is to be run twice or less, than go ahead with reel to reel operation. BUT, 3 times or more stick to a platter! I actually spoke on a forum a while back with an older gentleman who believed a print was in "pristine" condition if there wasn't a cut on the leaders where it had been platter mounted or mounted on 6000' reels. Apprently that's all that mattered for it to be rated an A+ print. (Some people just won't accept new technology. )

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9431
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-25-1999 01:52 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In Toronto the art/rep houses have probably the most skilled projectionist left since they still pay far more than the two circuits do for there multiplexes.
Also they all run either 20 minute or 6000 foot reels and some of them run the same print for months with less damage than most multiplexes seem to inflict on the prints.
Reel Bands in Ontario are manditory by law since they bear the stamp (or sticker) of the Ontario Film Review Board (censor board) and are actually referred to as censor bands. The use of the string prevents the end coming loose in the can unlike masking tape.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 7929
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-25-1999 03:28 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Having only worked in art houses with old equipment (Century projectors, 2000' and/or 6000' reels, and, in one case, carbon-arc lamps), I must chime in here and say that I've run films for as long as one month on 6000' reels with no visible print damage whatsoever. No scratches, no cinch marks, no repair splices. And this is with my working once or twice a week with some less-than-competent co-workers. For the month-long run, I agree with Brad that a well-designed and properly adjusted platter would have probably put slightly less wear on the film, but having that second projector is a godsend for once-only or twice-only shows, which were fairly common.

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