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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
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Author
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Topic: VOTE NOW...PTRs vs. Media Cleaners
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John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 08-04-1999 10:55 AM
PTRs are widely used by the film laboratories to clean the film during printing (less "white" dirt). They are used on most telecines when transferring film to video. They are widely used for special-venue projection like IMAX. They are generally recognized as the most effective, lowest cost, and safest film cleaning method in these applications.Several people in this thread note that the PTRs are removing lots of dirt from the film. So why aren't they working well? Are certain types of dirt harder to remove? Are they not "sticky" enough? Is the mounting equipment poorly designed (e.g., poor guiding, not enough tension, not enough wrap)? In my experience, dry web media cleaners can be effective, but are much higher risk for scratching the film if an abrasive dirt particle gets caught on the cleaning media. I saw an entire print scratched by one of these cleaners when a projectionist tried to remove abrasive cement dust that had built up on the print during booth reconstruction. Please help me understand why PTRs aren't meeting your needs, and how they might be improved.
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-04-1999 03:01 PM
In a perfect environment, I can see where PTRs could be of use. However, in typical projection rooms, something a little more powerful than a slightly tacky roller must be implemented. PTRs will fill up with dirt before the trailers are over. (Hence the name Particle Transfer Rollers...transferring the dirt particles from one part of the print to another.) Also the latest ones I saw brand new weren't sticky at all. It was like a piece of rubber. Gordon McLeod has noted to me a brand of PTRs (sorry, not Kodak) he found to work well, but he is using them on IMAX prints which I do not believe is a fair comparison. To me, if they aren't made more stickier, they will never be effective. In my tests the PTR prints were always dirtier than ones left alone. I can explain the testing conditions if you wish, but they were perfectly fair. As to dry web media cleaners, yes they can scratch...when run "dry". I extend my invitation for you to come witness for yourself the power of FilmGuard in Dallas. Perhaps you would care to take in a screening of Phantom Meance? You won't believe it until you see it
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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today
Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-04-1999 04:50 PM
OK I have to chime in here. Here is the way PTRs work: Put clean ones on, run film, PTRs are dirty by the end of the 2nd reel at best, take PTRs off, wash them, let them dry, repeat each and every show. Ug! Our PTRs have long lost their "sticky". They are not sticky when removed from the print to be cleaned. My estimates indicate that it would take over 6 months to get a dirty print clean using PTRs every show. The only way PTRs are effective is if you use them from day 1, every show, in an immaculately clean booth. But the constant cleaning and drying is not possible in real world booth conditions, especially for every projector. With FilmGuard, you just soak the media pads, thread the film, and don't soak the pads again for another week. Yes, you run the film through the same media pads each show, and the results are phenomenal. It doesn't take much time to rewind the pads each show (less than to wipe out a dirty projector) so the concept of having it on every screen in a large multiplex is sound. We have used PTRs for several months when our theatre first opened, and it is impossible for them to keep up with the amount of shedding coming off of the film. I'm sorry for the single, long, continuous paragraph.
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