Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » 16mm prints on 35mm reels? (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: 16mm prints on 35mm reels?
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-10-1999 02:43 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's an interesting one.

A friend of mine received a print for a kids matinee yesterday. Upon pulling the reels out of the cans he found the film was fairly nicely wound onto the shipping reels...BUT had been sliced down the middle, almost as if there was two rolls of 16mm film on each reel!

He was right. I didn't believe it until I saw it. I'm thinking it happened during breakdown, perhaps running under a keeper bracket, as I can't imagine it happened any other way.

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-10-1999 04:14 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds almost as if it was done intentionally. It would be really hard to slice a film perfectly in half all the way through like that. Probably a disgruntled projectionist.

 |  IP: Logged

Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 07-10-1999 06:39 PM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds more like an "inspected" print from Technicolor.
On second thought, make that Kit Parker!

 |  IP: Logged

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-11-1999 12:40 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I heard a story about this once, but I always assumed that it wasn't entirely true. Anyway, were the reels wound tails out? If so, it's possible that the film was last run on 2000' reels in a nitrate-era projection booth. Apparently some reel magazines had a device which could cut the film at the entrance to the upper and lower magazines if the film jammed in the gate and burned. Anyway, if the razor-blade thing is mis-adjusted, it is possible to slit the film down the center. I've never actually seen this type of setup, though; the reel magazines that I've seen just have "valve rollers" which supposedly make the upper and lower magazines airtight (though nitrate film doesn't need air to burn, so I can't imagine that this would be terribly helpful).

 |  IP: Logged

Jim Bedford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 597
From: Telluride, CO, USA (733 mi. WNW of Rockwall, TX but it seems much, much longer)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-13-1999 07:06 PM      Profile for Jim Bedford   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Bedford   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Last year, while running a print of The Groove Tube, I walked into the booth and there it was, right after the last roller: The film had split in half at a splice, after passing the shutdown switch, and half the film was being taken up on the reel and the other half being taken up on the floor. It was in a lame portion of a lame film, but I too, had a 16mm looking film on a 35mm looking reel.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-26-1999 01:09 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, the last theater to have this print ran it reel to reel. It came to the theater tails out, right from the takeup shaft.

Here it is

 -
 -


 |  IP: Logged

Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 06-05-2002 11:26 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"the reel magazines that I've seen just have "valve rollers" which supposedly make the upper and lower magazines airtight (though nitrate film doesn't need air to burn, so I can't imagine that this would be terribly helpful)."

The idea of the fire traps is not to make the spool boxes, (magazines), airtight, but to prevent the passage of flame into the spool box, a bit like a miner's safety lamp.

Before projecting a few minutes of a nitrate print recently, on one of a pair of long disused projectors, I threaded a few inches of film through each of the fire traps, and ignited the outside end. The flame did not pass through the traps; I wouldn't have tried running the film if it had.

Don't ask awkward questions about where this was, it was not in a public cinema, but was in a still fully equipped box, despite years of dis-use. It was a private screening, just for myself, and one other person, not that I got to see much of it, I was too busy keeping my eyes on the gate. I inspected every inch of the film very carefully before running it, then ran it through the mech with the lamp off, watching and listening for any problems, then inspected again before running it with smaller than normal carbons, and somewhat reduced lamp current.

 |  IP: Logged

Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 06-05-2002 01:24 PM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A 35mm print of "The Groove Tube" was destroyed?! What a tragedy!

 |  IP: Logged

Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 06-05-2002 01:57 PM      Profile for Thomas Procyk   Email Thomas Procyk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They always seem to send the absolute worst prints for kids matinees. When Regal had their "Free summer kid's film fest" thing, there were some horribly old films in the lineup: Hey There its Yogi Bear, Here Come The Littles, Smurfs and the Magic Flute, and some He-Man Adventure.

Yogi Bear I believe was from the 60's. That's what the copyright in the credits said. Not sure if the print itself was, but it was mono and there were various stretches for several minutes where the image was a dark purple, and you could barely make out the outlines of the characters. Audio was fine, though.

Here Come The Littles was a disaster. Triacetate print that was as brittle as a potato chip. They still wanted a 4-screen interlock despite my protests. Walking by the take-up platter, I noticed it winding funny. Not exactly 16mm size, but just a bit smaller than 35. It was missing the sprocket holes on one side, and there they were in a pile, being shaved off by a roller. So we had to stop a 4-screen interlock packed with screaming day-care kids. About 3 minutes of the print was ruined.

Smurfs had green lines through the entire image, too many to count. I don't even know why they bothered to show it. 42 splices in Reel 1 alone. I ran this 2 years in a row, second year it came in 1/2 a reel shorter, and fell apart" at the theater afer ours.

Never ran He-Man. The manager from the previous theater brought it to us clamped, and carried it in the rain.

The print that Brad is talking about has actually crossed my mind before. Something sharp in the middle of a stuck roller could make an entire print irreparable. (is that a word?)

=TMP=


 |  IP: Logged

Peter Kerchinsky
Master Film Handler

Posts: 326
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 06-05-2002 09:21 PM      Profile for Peter Kerchinsky   Email Peter Kerchinsky   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I
also had a print split at a splice after the fail safe, half going on the platter, the other half going on the floor.
How that damn Super Platter took up a 16mm size film for almost twenty minutes is totally beyond me. Something eventually shut the whole thing down and I really can't print what I said when I got to the booth and saw this mess of film on the floor.
To make matters worse we lost a good portion of a sexy scene in an Al Pacino movie titled SEA OF LOVE. The mishap happened on a Friday night and we could not get replacement reels until Monday! By the way it was a discount house and alot of customers had already seen the film first run, apparently, because lots of complaints about us "editing" the film.
Kind of makes me like this new mylar film stock that doesn't break eh.

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-05-2002 09:28 PM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have seen film split like that before, but to have both pieces take up on a reel like that is bizarre. Perhaps it split, but the projectionist didn't notice until the end or near it. Then they wound the 2000' x 16mm pice that was sitting in a pile on the floor next to the 16mm piece on the reel, but didn't say anything to anyone hoping that it wouldn't be traced back to them. Even if that seems far fetched, whoever sent that reel out like that certainly knew it was split, as they must have taped the ends down. Or did they not?

 |  IP: Logged

Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 06-05-2002 10:18 PM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

"...intentionally...?"
To damage a print deliberately to make it unusable but still viewable, as for example in a stock footage library, the device used was called a Film Mutilator. Photos of benchtop models appear in the
1934 Neumade Products Catalog.
It could be set to make one or more scratches through the length of the film on emulsion side, through the image, or through the sound track, or both. There was a drawer to catch and permit disposal of the emulsion shavings. I believe they were made in 35mm and 16mm sizes. [Perhaps it didn't sell well, there being those who mutilate film frequently for free, no device needed save inattention...]
The device to divide a length of film is of course a Film Slitter,
sometimes made at home for slitting double-8mm amateur film from 16mm stock, but more often done on precision machines at processing labs,
such as those of Eastman Kodak.

 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-06-2002 05:42 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Did the slit extend through the splice into either the head or the tail leader and was it tail up or heads up

 |  IP: Logged

Scott Manley
Film Handler

Posts: 59
From: Austin, TX USA
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 06-06-2002 08:47 AM      Profile for Scott Manley   Email Scott Manley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Many years ago......I had a cartoon we were showing in front of a Disney film split after the failsafe for about 60 feet before it tripped....Another projectionist and I decided to try to put it back together....laaying the film on a splicer we placed splicing tape down the middle of the film....put it back in and it ran. Looked a little funny on the screen....but it was a cartoon....kids loved it.

 |  IP: Logged

Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-06-2002 10:08 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, nobody has asked the question yet...
The reel is already trashed, so just for kicks - have you tried threading and running both strips of film?

If possible, the idea brings up the mind boggling possibilities of some strange midnight shows where the left and right strips are threaded with an offset time base, or the left half of the image is from one feature, and the right from another entirely different feature. "Rocky Horror"/"Chorus Line"? "Star Wars"/"Tora Tora Tora"?

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.