Film-Tech Forums: Audio CAP on Indy

»	Film-Tech Forums » Film Handler's Forum » Audio CAP on Indy (Page 6)

This topic comprises 7 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Author

Topic: Audio CAP on Indy

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 5384
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-29-2008 06:02 PM

Ahhh...now that is MY kind of weather!

| IP: Logged

Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 5453
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-29-2008 06:51 PM

I just went and read the boingboing thread. (Well, skimmed over it, but I got the gist of it.) A bunch of misinformation, speculation, exaggeration, and stupidness about "sticky floors" and so forth. If the dork who started that thread had worded his post more properly, the brouhaha would have been much less. For one thing, he accuses Paramount IN HIS THREAD TITLE of "silencing portions of Indiana Jones," making it sound as if there are giant chunks of the film without sound.

About 80% of the thread is a bunch of crap from a bunch of whiners who either haven't seen/heard the movie, or just like to dump on the cinema experience as a pastime.

Not that I'm not peeved about this whole thing. We are running a CP650 here and our system has been thoroughly "Gulbransen'd," but I'm still a little apprehensive about what might happen. I likely won't have time for a pre-screening due to tight circuits, but will probably run R5 ahead of time just to see what kind of crap I'll be dealing with. I'm hoping it doesn't make me regret switching away from DTS.

| IP: Logged

John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 2543
From: Sydney, Australia. 8602 m (13844 km) SW of Rockwall. Don't forget your swimmers!
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-29-2008 07:13 PM

quote: Phil Hill
Ya know Mike, I'm thinking of coming up there to your theatre and watching that film in my Inspector Clouseau disguise

Don't forget to bring your 'minkey'. [Wink]

quote: Mike Blakesley
I'm hoping it doesn't make me regret switching away from DTS.

Finally, a reason to still have DTS installed. [Eek!]

| IP: Logged

Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 564
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-29-2008 07:31 PM

Some years ago, when the recording companies wanted to cut frequencies around 3000 Hz on CDs as some sort of anti-copying crap, Congress had the NBS or the NIST (I don't rememer which) look at it. They said this would impact the quality of the sound, and Congress said NO to this greed based crap. Maybe it's time for Congress to take a look at the movie studio's greed based crap, and say NO to it as well.

I think it's a pile of crap, that after your theater has spent a lot of money on digital audio systems, Paramount feels that they have the right to make them intentionally fail. I would love to see all the theaters get together, and tell Paramount that they will not run IJ again until all the "defective" reel 5s are replaced with reels that play without a problem. [puke]

| IP: Logged

Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 2014
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 05-29-2008 08:10 PM

Played perfectly well at Baxter Ave. in Louisville. CP-500 with basement reader in Century soundhead. Louis

| IP: Logged

Marco Giustini
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 128
From: Reggio Emilia - Italy
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 05-29-2008 08:27 PM

I'm with Bruce.
Hundreds of thousand of dollars for equipment and then they draw a line on the soundtrack...

| IP: Logged

Blaine Young
Master Film Handler

Posts: 398
From: Kirkland, WA, USA
Registered: Sep 2006

posted 05-29-2008 10:11 PM

quote: Rick Raskin
I just saw IJ on film at the Regal in Manassas, VA. I was paying close attention during reel 5 and did not notice any dropouts or unusual tones.

Their presentation was okay but I did notice 2 mid-reel splices during the show that showed a white line at the join and cause a noticable blip in the sound.

Factory splices are all too common. You'd think they could find 1800 feet of stock that doesn't have a splice in it. That aside, a single sprocket of damaged SRD audio should not have created a perceivable blip in the audio. SDDS and DTS would have been even less noticable. Could they have been playing the print in SR?

| IP: Logged

John Hawkinson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1767
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-30-2008 12:18 PM

So, is it really true that the position of the fallback to analog is what the coding is here? If so,it seems really bizarre, since in a well-maintained system, the glitch should be nearly inaudible (especially after the camcorder microphone is done with it).

I had (at first) assumed that the coding was [sub-]audible tones in the analog soundtrack, and that digital fell back to analog because it's a lot harder to program a laser to output SRD blocks. But I guess that is not true? [Or if it's true, they are sufficiently sub-audible that it is not a problem?]

Blaine, raw stock comes from Kodak on 6,000 reels. So on average every 3 (or 3 1/3 if you want 1,800' reels) should have a lab splice. But perhaps another thread if you have brilliant ideas...

--jhawk

| IP: Logged

Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1105
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 05-30-2008 03:29 PM

Anyone know the easiest "Joe Public" contact for Paramount to complain about this? I definitely won't be seeing this movie, even if it plays at a good theater in the area, because of this. I've stopped watching all Fox movies in theaters too, even if they're free, because they've all recently had visible crap code, usually in the 2nd reel.

| IP: Logged

John Hawkinson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1767
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-30-2008 04:21 PM

Presumably you "write to the top":

Brad Grey
Chairman & Chief Executive Officer
Paramount Pictures
5555 Melrose Ave
Hollywood, CA 90038
+1 323-956-5000

(though I guess Redstone is also an option).

--jhawk

| IP: Logged

Rick Raskin
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 05-30-2008 04:34 PM

FWIW: This talk about CAP codes, visual and audible, leaves me wondering; why not just bar code the cue marks? Surely a binary code could be impressed on the circumference of one or more cues and would be imperceptible to all but the keenest of eyes. Any thoughts on this? Has it already been proposed and rejected?

| IP: Logged

John Hawkinson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1767
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-30-2008 05:24 PM

I believe that falls under "too easily filtered." Since cue marks appear in the same place in every frame, and follow the same positioning rule in every movie (1 and 8 seconds before the reel ends), and are distinctive enough that they could be filtered out with some relatively simple automated software processing, then there are three reasons not to use cue marks for CAP purposes.

Any one of those reasons is probably sufficient to condemn it, and all three are a pretty strong case against it. [Frown]

--jhawk

| IP: Logged

Jack Ondracek
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1684
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 05-31-2008 01:13 AM

quote: John Hawkinson
So, is it really true that the position of the fallback to analog is what the coding is here?

Good question. There seem to be two stories coming out of Paramount... one, sent through the booker, admitting to security watermarking, and the other, more public one, blaming it on print masters.

How long would it take to come up with 9700 unique locations, so the specific print could be located? For that matter, this whole idea depends on the sound system reverting at specific times, with no delays induced by various buffer sizes.

Methinks it's a screwy way to track piracy that probably happened weeks before any of us got our prints.

| IP: Logged

Kenneth Wuepper
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 556
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-31-2008 07:37 AM

Jack,

quote: Jack Ondracek
For that matter, this whole idea depends on the sound system reverting at specific times, with no delays induced by various buffer sizes.

The amount of delay used for displaced digital sound readers is calibrated so SRA and digital are both in sync for the projected image. Therefore the length of delay is different for each installation but the resulting reversion to SRA from digital remains in sync.

For that matter, this whole idea depends on the sound system reverting at specific times, with no delays induced by various buffer sizes. Digital failure would have to be designed to cause reversion to Analog in ALL instances. Slight differences in sensing and switching would have to be accounted for in the "planned digital track failure!"

First it was "planned obsolescence" and now it's "Planned malfunction!" What next???

KEN

| IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 5384
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-31-2008 04:35 PM

I'm sure this isn't the right thread but it doesn't warrant a new thread and it isn't really a review (though it might better be suited there)...

Has anyone else noticed that the opening credits (which are all that I have personally seen) were made using the lowest resolution seemingly possible? There is aliasing all over them and this was on a film print!

Steve

| IP: Logged

All times are CT (US)

This topic comprises 7 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Copyright 1999-2008 Film-Tech

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2
The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.