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Topic: Audio CAP on Indy

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 5471
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-23-2008 07:39 AM

Umm...why isn't everyone rejecting these reels as defective? Big blobs in the soundtrack would seem to qualify the reel as "unplayable," especially for a major first-run release.

(I would actually argue that cyan-track prints are defective as well, but few in film distribution would likely agree with me on this.)

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 5360
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-23-2008 08:16 AM

It wouldn't surprise me if the DTS discs also force an SR reversion during this section to ensure the "bumps" are played.

Steve

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Marco Giustini
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 122
From: Reggio Emilia - Italy
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 05-23-2008 01:29 PM

With Technicolor's system the DTS plays the annoying "blip" without dropping. Less annoying, but I really wonder HOW they made it!

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Film God

Posts: 11233
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-23-2008 02:54 PM

I just watched Indy and didn't hear any sound dropouts. It was a brand new system however and may not have been as susceptable as an older SRD reader may be. No complaints here.....

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Andres Briano
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 116
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: Jan 2008

posted 05-23-2008 05:01 PM

quote: Lyle Romer
This audio CRAP code is the most retarded idea I've ever seen. Do they think the pirates won't be able to mute this out or alter it? COME ON.

I agree 100% [beer]

quote: Lyle Romer
Maybe with digital cinema they will be able to come up with an inaudible audio cap code that will be difficult for the pirates to figure out how to filter but this is just STUPID.

Actually, let´s say you are right, what stops them from doing it right now? The physics of sound (output from a speaker) is exactly the same regardless of the playback system. That would make more sense than any other identifiable CrAP Code.

Andrés

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 13527
From: Rockwall, Texas, USA (a safe 1465 miles away from COOTVILLE, California)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-23-2008 06:54 PM

I think they are banking on the theory that pirates are stupid. After all, it would be almost effortless to simply remove the frames with the visible cap code on a video bootleg.

Regardless, Deluxe is REFUSING to replace ANY reel 5 with ANY kind of sound problem because of this. I know because I had 1 out of 12 reel fives with issues and the schmucks at Deluxe firmly refused to swap it. Lovely. Nice work guys!!! [fu]

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 6672
From: Hollywood, California USA, 1465 miles west of Rockwall, TX
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 05-23-2008 07:05 PM

Wouldn't a sharpie marker over that crap take care of the annoying noise with silence and then revert back to the digital track?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 13527
From: Rockwall, Texas, USA (a safe 1465 miles away from COOTVILLE, California)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-23-2008 07:06 PM

It would just cause a total dropout to silence. For that, it is just easier to thread the projector BYPASSING the analog sound drum altogether! (This is something easily accomplished on a Christie or DP70.)

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 5471
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-23-2008 07:10 PM

Does intentional damage to the digital track at the production/lab level (and refusal to replace defective reels) violate the license agreements that allow the use of Dolby SR, SRD, DTS, and/or SDDS? If not, it should. No one is going to sell very many $5-15k processors in the future if prints are going to have intentional damage to the soundtracks.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 13527
From: Rockwall, Texas, USA (a safe 1465 miles away from COOTVILLE, California)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-23-2008 07:17 PM

Well we sure as shit can't count on the help of NATO to save our presentations, so hopefully Dolby will take a stand against this nonsense. It would certainly make them look good as someone in this industry who CARES about quality. We'll see.

Some more examples sent in by other readers...

As you can see, it is in the same location on the reel. Look at the picture one of my team took and compare the image...

You can see in these last 2 images where the end of the blanking is, and if you count back 2.5 frames on mine there is a blip, followed by another blip 1.5 frames apart. On the vertical example above, the first blip is 2 frames away from the end of the blanking, and one frame of spacing apart. Clearly they figure they can load the audio into a computer and look at the timing of the dots to calculate the print number. Ingenious? Well, sort of in a lame kind of way. Quality oriented? Hell fuck no.

Still, this would be EASILY overcome in a non-linear editor such that it would be 100% concealed with maybe 3 minutes of work. This will NOT stop any professional pirate.

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Lyle Romer
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 700
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 05-23-2008 09:46 PM

quote: Andres Briano
Actually, let´s say you are right, what stops them from doing it right now? The physics of sound (output from a speaker) is exactly the same regardless of the playback system. That would make more sense than any other identifiable CrAP Code.

On film prints they can't alter the digital soundtrack separately for each print (since the processors were not designed with this in mind). In digital cinema, the server can insert things into the soundtrack that is unique for a particular screen. It is made easier because it is uncompressed audio so it's a lot easier than trying to integrate something into a compressed track.

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Blaine Young
Master Film Handler

Posts: 393
From: Kirkland, WA, USA
Registered: Sep 2006

posted 05-23-2008 10:21 PM

This explains A LOT about the issues we've been having. Of 5 prints, one refuses to stay in lock in a house where Iron Man played fine two weeks ago. We can put another print in and it works okay. But the error rates on all prints are all over the place. At some points, we not only drop to "F", but some sections of the print will actially show '-'. I think this practice is total bull shit. I mean the security dots are bad enough, but intentionally dropping out the audio is completely moronic.

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Jack Ondracek
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1677
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 05-23-2008 11:53 PM

I haven't noticed a problem with my SRD track, though I'll pay more attention tonight.

For those of you who aren't owners, is a complaint to the lab as much as you can do? If the lab refused to service a print problem here, I'd be starting with my booker, then a couple of studio numbers. After (supposedly) getting the problem fixed, I'd be curious if the studio would admit to instructing the lab to refuse replacements.

Sure seems wierd.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 13527
From: Rockwall, Texas, USA (a safe 1465 miles away from COOTVILLE, California)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-24-2008 01:55 AM

Well, if anyone wants out of their contract early I suppose they could always refuse to play it past when they want to due to the "print defects".

(I really hope at least someone does this.)

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Marco Giustini
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 122
From: Reggio Emilia - Italy
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 05-24-2008 04:45 AM

Blaine

This CAP is "only" for 1,5 seconds x 3 times, so it's not the issue you're describing.

I still have to see it running, but the Technicolor shit will have the processor revert and stay in "F", not "-" since only the center section of the SRD squares is covered by CAP. This way, I think, the square's corners are always seen and the processor will go back to SRD easily when the blue line disappears.

Marco

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