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Topic: New Anti-Piracy coding

Richard M. Garbarini
Film Handler

Posts: 5
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Feb 2008

posted 03-03-2008 10:11 AM

In Europe, Technicolor (and others) have been using an anti-piracy coding system whereby the digital sound is disabled over up to 9 frames and the analog sound is marked with a bar code (applied with laser or in the printing process). Has anyone seen this in the United States, and if so when?

FYI: There have been two generations of techniques patented since the Kodak CAP coding system. Just trying to find out if anyone has noticed them in use.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 13527
From: Rockwall, Texas, USA (a safe 1465 miles away from COOTVILLE, California)
Registered: May 99

posted 03-03-2008 12:14 PM

I would think that drop with the noise associated would be terribly distracting to the presentation and would end up with those reels being rejected by many theaters.

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Richard M. Garbarini
Film Handler

Posts: 5
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Feb 2008

posted 03-03-2008 01:14 PM

The drop in noise is imperceptable. The bar code, optimally, is placed over 4 frames, and cannot be heard with the human ear (not actually always the case.) You have to analyze a read-out of the sound to get the code. The last movie I have seen coded with this method was The Golden Compass.

Technicolor and Warner have another patented method which actually varies the length bewteen set scenes to come up with a number for the print.

The MPAA here, and the GVU in Germany have had a terrible time authenticating films with the numbering and CAP system when the film is re-recorded with a cam corder in the theatre.

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Max Biela
Film Handler

Posts: 82
From: Dortmund, Germany
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 03-03-2008 02:15 PM

This is a photo of a brand new print of "Chicken Little" (Technicolor Rome):

It's not a barcode that is "imperceptable" but a rather loud noise scratched into the soundtrack in a very quiet scene. It's distracting like hell and it wasn't possible to get a print without a mark like this. Oh, and guess what, there is big orange CAP code too!

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Richard M. Garbarini
Film Handler

Posts: 5
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Feb 2008

posted 03-03-2008 02:45 PM

Wow, by Jove I think he got it. That is exactly what I was looking for - just in America. So it is not imperceptable! Thank you so much.

If anyone can find an example in the US it would be amazing.

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Sebastian Binz
Film Handler

Posts: 24
From: Hennef, NRW, Germany
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 03-03-2008 04:30 PM

I can confirm that a bunch of new films in Germany do contain this sort of marking. I found it in the German movie "Keinohrhasen" as well as in a copy of the newest Rambo.
In the auditorium you can actually hear them and, well, someone lately described those sounds as "farts in the sound".

Since those marks usually appear in scenes without much noise, they are very annoying.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2360
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 03-03-2008 04:40 PM

Wow, talk about a brute-force method! I guess they think most theaters no longer use the analoge track anymore, and the few that do don't count.

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John Hawkinson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1753
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-03-2008 04:46 PM

I would really like to think this is a sad, sad, sad, joke.

--jhawk

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 13527
From: Rockwall, Texas, USA (a safe 1465 miles away from COOTVILLE, California)
Registered: May 99

posted 03-03-2008 05:26 PM

Doubt it. Valenti has the industry brainwashed even after his death. [Frown]

What about dts? Surely they don't destroy enough of the timecode to force dts to drop to analog.

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 560
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-03-2008 05:28 PM

Do you know how the digital audio is disabled? The "lines" shown on the film will screw with the DTS time code, but DTS will "freewheel" for about 4 seconds. I do not see Dolby digital or SDDS on that film. The lines look almost like this was caused by a printer problem. Have you tried getting a replacement reel, and if so, is it marked the same way?

If this IS a form of crap code, you and everyone you know need to raise hell with your government, and get this crap stopped.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 2011
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 03-03-2008 06:33 PM

I'm with Bruce; looks like the "high quality" of Technicolor/Rome. Louis

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Marco Giustini
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 122
From: Reggio Emilia - Italy
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 03-03-2008 07:11 PM

That does not seem the audio piracy code to me.

The audio piracy code is made covering SRD track for some frames. The CP drops to analog and on the analog track there is some blu bars for two frames that make a tone in the room. I suppose that this tone is different for print number basis, since the location of the noise is the same on every prints.

How can you say that cannot be heard??
I went upstairs during screenings many and many times before understanding that it was a new CAP code since 2004...

I was in touch with Dolby labs UK. They told me that it's used in USA too (that's what they told me) and that they were fighting with studios to remove them.

On DTS, I really don't know HOW, the tone is overimposed by the player, it does not drop to SR. It's less noticeable.

Well, if you have a very well aligned sound system, the short SR drop is not so much distracting, and they have improved it (I think it's shorter). But in real world SR is left to its destiny and you can just imagine what can be heard in the auditorium. And think to older processors, that makes drops in a more noticeable way. CP650 2.2.5.0 wave just a bit when going again in Digital.

Here's a shot.

At this time Disney stopped the terrible tecnique.

Brad: Rejecting? I talked to Technicolor Rome (this tecnique is a Technicolor patent) and they told me that the only complains they had was from theater with WHITE light on SR...
They told me that this system is working, and that noone is complaying, besides me.

Ciao
Marco

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 2066
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 03-03-2008 07:54 PM

Are you freaking kidding me??!?

Anyone else for chopping that crap out of the print completely and throwing it away? I'd claim print damage if anyone asked. I've done that with the huge orange dots too on occasion when they were unbelievably intrusive. It looks like you'd only lose about two or three frames there. A much better option in my opinion than hearing some random noise that interrupts the show every single time the movie plays.

How idiotic.

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Marco Giustini
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 122
From: Reggio Emilia - Italy
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 03-03-2008 08:07 PM

Mark

First time I heard that was on Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. I run upstairs to stop and to check. That time I chopped away the offending frames because I thought of a print defect.
But this shit is printed FOUR time for one of the reel. It's stupid and useless, but I really prefer four noises than mutilating four time a reel. More, think of the difficult in a multiplex inspecting all reels searching for Audio CrAP code...

I complained, but seems I was the only one. If the theater was mine, I would NEVER accept a print with a defective soundtrack. Do we buy 10.000$ Dolby equipment to see it reverting four time a movie?

I fought my battle, and I lost it.

Ciao
M

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Thomas Pitt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 206
From: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: May 2007

posted 03-04-2008 12:53 AM

I posted here about 'bloops' in the audio a while ago. Possibly this was the new CAP code I was hearing; the sound briefly going to a tone and then recovering.

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